Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi.

A couple of days ago, someone left a puppy (3-4 months old) at my door and I decided to keep her instead of delivering her to the shelter. She looks like a mix between a Rotweiler and a Doberman (thinner than a Rotweiler and with softer hair)

I never trained a dog but she looks like a fast learner. But I have a completely irregular work schedule and I know that having a routine is usually very important in training.

Most important for me now is potty training. I live in a two floors appartment with a balcony (around 10m x 4m).

The crates seem to be an unheard concept in this small part of the world so when I'm out I leave her in the kitchen with the door to the balcony open. When she's in the kitchen by herself and if it's not raining, she usually goes to the balcony to pee and poo (are these terms correct? )

But when she's free to go everywhere in the house, she does it anywhere.

My goal is to teach her to only do it outside when we go for a walk.

Will the simple praise routine when she does it during the walks be enough? I will be available for walks with great irregularity in what concerns the time of day.

Thanks in advance.

>>Hi.
>>
>>A couple of days ago, someone left a puppy (3-4 months old) at my door and I decided to keep her instead of delivering her to the shelter. She looks like a mix between a Rotweiler and a Doberman (thinner than a Rotweiler and with softer hair)
>>
>>I never trained a dog but she looks like a fast learner. But I have a completely irregular work schedule and I know that having a routine is usually very important in training.
>>
>>Most important for me now is potty training. I live in a two floors appartment with a balcony (around 10m x 4m).
>>
>>The crates seem to be an unheard concept in this small part of the world so when I'm out I leave her in the kitchen with the door to the balcony open. When she's in the kitchen by herself and if it's not raining, she usually goes to the balcony to pee and poo (are these terms correct? )
>>
>>But when she's free to go everywhere in the house, she does it anywhere.
>>
>>My goal is to teach her to only do it outside when we go for a walk.
>>
>>Will the simple praise routine when she does it during the walks be enough? I will be available for walks with great irregularity in what concerns the time of day.
>>
>>Thanks in advance.

>>>>>>>>>

Dogs do require a schedule for elimination, not only to learn but also to be healthy and sane. It's incredibly stressful for a dog to be expected to what she cannot physically do.

Just because other people where you live do not use crates doesn't mean you can't. But there's a lot more to be concerned about here, if you can't give her care on a predictable schedule. She's going to need a lot of care and training. Housetraining is only a tiny fraction of that. You'll find how-to on all sorts of training at the link below my signature, all free, an educational site sponsored by veterinarians.
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Kathy Diamond Davis, author, "Therapy Dogs: Training Your Dog to Reach Others," 2nd edition, and the free Canine Behavior Series articles at http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=SRC&S=1&SourceID=47

Thanks for the link. Lots of usefull information.

I can be with her a lot of time, but not within a tight schedule.

In the meantime things seem to have started to get worse by the hour.

The first night she slept in the kitchen she cried for 5 minutes and went to sleep. Now she no longer sees the kitchen as a place to sleep at all. She cries and howls for hours and hits the door with her paws at an incredible rythm. She destroys all she can and she started to use it as her bathroom. But I think that maybe it all started because I made a stupid mistake:

I have access to the balcony both through the kitchen and the living room. I left her in the kitchen with the kitchen door open to the balcony, but I forgot to close the the living room's door to the balcony. She started crying, then went out to the balcony and found the living room's door open and ran inside and found me while I was silently waiting for her to calm down. I think that now she believes that when I lock her in the kitchen, I am next door.

The more attached she gets to me, the worse she seems to get. If I move a couple of meters, she always stands up and moves closer to me. I started saying "Go back!" and pointing back to the place where she was. To my astonishment she understands it. She puts a sad face, cries a little and goes back. But she has to keep me in sight. May the fact that her previous owner abandoned her have something to do with it?

I think I'm going to give it a couple of days and see if she shows any sign of accepting the kitchen as her place.

As soon as she learns to use exclusively the balcony and the outside walks as bathroom occasions I think I will have no problem in letting her sleep in my bedroom.

>>Thanks for the link. Lots of usefull information.
>>
>>I can be with her a lot of time, but not within a tight schedule.
>>
>>In the meantime things seem to have started to get worse by the hour.
>>
>>The first night she slept in the kitchen she cried for 5 minutes and went to sleep. Now she no longer sees the kitchen as a place to sleep at all. She cries and howls for hours and hits the door with her paws at an incredible rythm. She destroys all she can and she started to use it as her bathroom. But I think that maybe it all started because I made a stupid mistake:
>>
>>I have access to the balcony both through the kitchen and the living room. I left her in the kitchen with the kitchen door open to the balcony, but I forgot to close the the living room's door to the balcony. She started crying, then went out to the balcony and found the living room's door open and ran inside and found me while I was silently waiting for her to calm down. I think that now she believes that when I lock her in the kitchen, I am next door.
>>
>>The more attached she gets to me, the worse she seems to get. If I move a couple of meters, she always stands up and moves closer to me. I started saying "Go back!" and pointing back to the place where she was. To my astonishment she understands it. She puts a sad face, cries a little and goes back. But she has to keep me in sight. May the fact that her previous owner abandoned her have something to do with it?
>>
>>I think I'm going to give it a couple of days and see if she shows any sign of accepting the kitchen as her place.
>>
>>As soon as she learns to use exclusively the balcony and the outside walks as bathroom occasions I think I will have no problem in letting her sleep in my bedroom.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

One thing to keep in mind is that it would be easy to find a good home for this dog while she's still a puppy. If you keep her until it's obvious you can't give her the training and attention she needs, she won't be cute any more and will have behavior problems as baggage. This would greatly reduce her chances of surviving to live a full life. In the U.S., one estimate is that 50% of puppies are dead by age 2 years because of situations such as this. Something to think about now, while she is most placeable.
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Kathy Diamond Davis, author, "Therapy Dogs: Training Your Dog to Reach Others," 2nd edition, and the free Canine Behavior Series articles at http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=SRC&S=1&SourceID=47

I think what you call a good home is rare around here and mainly because of culture differences.

Today I went to the vet with her and I mentioned the use of a crate. The veterenarian immediatly pointed out that it's not recommended (only a few days ago I found out such a thing existed, in fact you can't find it in any petstore around here, only travel cages), although it's common practice in the US, such as many other practices that are not used at all here. The opposite also happens, of course.

I will take your advises in consideration and I will try as much as I can to provide her with a routine as steady as I can, specially during these first months.

As I mentioned before the main thing for me is to teach her to only use the exterior as her bathroom. If that situation is controlled and I don't see why it can't, I don't think it's likely that she will develop any habits that would force me to try to find her a new home.

You were a bit vague in your suggestion that I should consider giving her away, but since you've been so helpfull and you have a great deal of experience, I would like to ask you what do you think are the critical factors that would lead the development of "unnacceptable" behaviours and why do you think that the odds for me to have to get rid of her later are so high. Although I agree that there's a very special charm in "puppyhood" (I found out today that she's only 2 months old after all) I think an adult dog is a great companion.

Thanks a lot in advance.

>>I think what you call a good home is rare around here and mainly because of culture differences.
>>
>>Today I went to the vet with her and I mentioned the use of a crate. The veterenarian immediatly pointed out that it's not recommended (only a few days ago I found out such a thing existed, in fact you can't find it in any petstore around here, only travel cages), although it's common practice in the US, such as many other practices that are not used at all here. The opposite also happens, of course.
>>
>>I will take your advises in consideration and I will try as much as I can to provide her with a routine as steady as I can, specially during these first months.
>>
>>As I mentioned before the main thing for me is to teach her to only use the exterior as her bathroom. If that situation is controlled and I don't see why it can't, I don't think it's likely that she will develop any habits that would force me to try to find her a new home.
>>
>>You were a bit vague in your suggestion that I should consider giving her away, but since you've been so helpfull and you have a great deal of experience, I would like to ask you what do you think are the critical factors that would lead the development of "unnacceptable" behaviours and why do you think that the odds for me to have to get rid of her later are so high. Although I agree that there's a very special charm in "puppyhood" (I found out today that she's only 2 months old after all) I think an adult dog is a great companion.
>>
>>Thanks a lot in advance.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

There really are a lot of potential problems here. At 2 months of age, a dog can only hold it maybe 3 hours before going to the bathroom, and not 3 hours all the way around the clock. If your schedule is irregular, there's a good chance you'll never even be able to housetrain her.

Due to temperament, both the Rottweiler and the Doberman are considered not appropriate breeds for someone's first dog. Both require a lot of training, far, far beyond housetraining. The destructive chewing stage when the dog is 9 months or thereabouts of age is likely to totally tear up your home. Rottweilers are legendary for the damage they do during this stage, which can last to age 3 years.

I can't fully explain here all the concerns that make me feel it's not likely you'll still have this dog by the age of two years. You might get a better sense of it from the articles I wrote in the educational site below my signature. But the answer to what you're asking me is very complicated, and when emotion is involved over a cute puppy, it's hard to hear and believe anyway. Good luck to you.
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Kathy Diamond Davis, author, "Therapy Dogs: Training Your Dog to Reach Others," 2nd edition, and the free Canine Behavior Series articles at http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=SRC&S=1&SourceID=47

Well she has a mix of races: she has the face shape and ears of a husky, the pattern of the hair colour of a rotweiler, but the body and face are slimmer.

She's always chewing something, that's for sure.

The temperament... she's stubborn. I know that she understands some things and that she already has a notion about right or wrong. Sometimes she simply decides to insist on doing what's wrong or if she notices I don't want her to do something, she'll insist on doing it and gets angry when I stop her.

I'm trying to spend more than 12 hours per day with her and I'm managing to give a routine, although a not very ordinary one. It means I normally put her in the kitchen/balcony area around 6am and get her out of there around 3 or 4 pm and she stays with me until it's 6am again. She gets fed 3 times/day.

Before each walk I give her water and this is helping the peeing problem. But the praise technique doesn't affect her much, since she's always with her nose on the ground when we're out and doesn't pay any attention if I praise her or not.

But the "liquid" problem seams to be on the good way.

The "solid" problem is tougher. She insists on doing it at home. I feed her, wait about half an hour and go for a walk. Once we were out for 3 hours. She holds it and only does it at home. Sometimes she's desperate to go and do it in one of the places she usually uses at home. I notice it and take her outside for a while. Nothing. She just tries to catch me not paying attention for a moment and do it at home.

I tried to teach her to use a set of newspaper sheets as a base. putting her on them when she wants to pee. She starts playing with them or lies down on them. I even tried wetting them a bit in her own pee before. No results.

To control the biting problem I'm simply stopping playing with her when she bites too much/hard.

I'm a very persistent guy and I won't give up easily and it's true what you say about emotions. I problably would have given her away if I hadn't become so attatched to her, more because this is tiring and sometimes discouraging than because of the belief that I won't be able to train her. But I only have her for a week and there's already some progress.

When I try to imagine her in the future I base my judgement on her calmer moments. So I will continue to read your articles and try to adapt some of your advises to my situation... except the advise to give her away

I really have the feeling that I'm training myself as much as her.

Combining supervision and positive encouradgement is working great on itself for potty businesses. She's smart and everytime we go out she pee's 2 or 3 times within 5 minutes and I think it can be because she gets a goodie everytime. Accidents have dropped a lot.

But my schedule remains a problem here. She stays with me from 6 pm till I go to bed at around 7am and she sleeps more than half of the time. When I leave her in the kitchen/balcony, there's already daylight and she doesn't go to sleep and can cry, howl, bark and hit the door for hours. She does not sleep, neither do I. I never gave in yet but how long can it take before she starts to take it better?

>>I really have the feeling that I'm training myself as much as her.

When we go to classes our trainers always say they really are training the humans. The dogs just benefit from what the human learns.

As for how long before your dog learns to settle down, well, it's very individualistic, but most habits break in about 2 weeks. It's an average, but it gives you somewhere to start.

Good luck, sounds like you are on the right track.
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Chelle and the rest of the crew including, but not limited to Kita and Taiko (the shiba inu wrestle maniacs), Adi (reserved and dignified tabby cat), and all 28 reptiles