Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello,
I forgot to add relentless...
I have a sibe that I got at the spca three months ago. He's probably about 10 months now. His main problem is food agression. I don't know his back ground but I know some of the the problems have evolved because of me. I left him with a knuckle bone a few times while I had to leave him alone for 1/2 an hour and was attacked when I tried to take it away. At first I got it away with out to much danger(he put the priority on defending the bone by coming at me and once I got the bone he would stop) but each time it got worse to the point where he became defencive of his food bowl.
Now if he gets anything in his mouth that I don't think should be there he growls at me when I come close. I started working with him while eatting by petting him or keeping my hand on the bowl and taking it away if he started growling. I got to the point where I could even rub his gums and go into the bowl making him surrender the food with out any agression but as soon as I gave him time to him self with the bowl it got worse again.
I've been bitten a few times and attacked once when he refused to move out of the stairway and I had to nudge him. What I think made him really moody is when he first started attacking me I would instinctively grab the loose skin on the sides of his neck and because he was facing me I could not just let him go or push him away from me as he would bite me. Because he was scared and inraged by these points he would not notice how hard and at some points seem sorry even. I know now that anyone with an agressive dog should never grab a dog like that when in front of it(face to face), it's potentilly leathal and is the the most intensely stressful possition you can put your dog in. I should have gotten a professional to help at that point but every time I concidered it he would improve dramatically and I would brush it off and enjoy our friendship.

Now I've learned alot about him and how not to aggrivate him but I don't know how to address the food problem. He's always been anxious, eatting his food as fast as possible even if it means gagging or choking, even befor I started working with him while he eats. He stays away from the bowl untill I give him permission no matter how long I make him wait and he listens almost all the time with everything else unless I'm to tired to be assertive(he knows every trick in the book and walk over rows of chairs with out even bribing him with food). I'm tempted to think I should just let him have his peace one I let him eat but then how do I solve the problem with bones(these being the times I've been serriously bitten).
Thanks for reading this, I know it's long. A few last notes, he does let me take his bowl at any time as long as I grab it from the water side of it. He only starts eatting the food faster. As horrible as he might sound he's the most amasing beast I've ever known and has alot of love under his fears. I live with him in the country on a soon to be homestead and don't work at the moment so I'm with him almost all the time. When he steals something I can now get him to open his mouth when I ask by putting my finger behind his long scary tooth and saying open but he still growls. I can't possibly imagine at this moment that he'll ever comply to drop it but come to think of I remember being shure it would be 3 years or something befor he would heal if he wasn't tired. My biggest concern is, is what I'm doing now ok? I know he trusts me enough to put my finger in his mouth when he has something but he'll likely snap at any one else. Should I bother trying to take things from him that won't really hurt him like a plastic wrapper just to avoid conflict(this is when he has already stolen it or found it when I'm not looking. He's a real thief and only grabs things now if he knows I won't notice in time and then becomes defensive) Should I just arm myself with food at all times so I can bribe him if worse comes to worse? I don't want to see him like this and more so I don't want to feel the horrible emotions that I go through when he gets bad. He's so persistent when he knows he's getting on my nerves that all I can do is try to get him back home befor I go crazy.
Thanks for your time, Josh.

I'll try to get a picture of my horrible beast on here when I get a chance. His names Yukon by the way.

I think you need help from a professional trainer... and I'm not talking about classes at Petsmart. You need somebody that can come to your home and observe this behavior in person. It sounds like you're making progress in gaining his trust, and it sounds like there's still a little struggle for establishing dominance.

If he has something he shouldn't swallow, like plastic wrap, you absolutely have to get it from him. I think you're pretty brave to get that close to or in his mouth. You could try brushing his teeth with special toothbrush/toothpaste from Petsmart/Petco. They like the taste. This might get him used to you handling his mouth and gain trust. I'd start slow, though.

Good luck!

Walt

I commend you for taking in a rescue. It's never easy to take in a dog that has issues and try to fix them, expecially when the issues seem to be getting worse instead of better.

I am going to recommend that you have this interaction between you and your dog evaluated by a professional. It's quite severe when you've already been bitten and it needs to get under control obviously. The SPCA where you adopted your dog from can give you a referral.

While waiting for your appointment, I recommend two books: "Preventing Dog Aggression" ($6 at www.dogwise.com) and "Dog Aggression Practival Management, Prevantion and Behavior Modification" ($65 at www.dogwise.com).

I also would stop the practice of dealing with your dog's food while he is eating until you have that expert opinion. It sounds like your dog is giving you quite a bit of warning signals that you are missing prior to growling and then eventually biting. You need ot respect those warnings and you certainly don't want to create a dog that stops warning you and proceeds directly to biting. Those are when you get the reports you hear of dogs "that bite for no reason." They've been taught to omit the warnin and go straight to the final stage of angry- the bite.

I believe strongly in being alpha with your dog, but quite honestly, you have not owned this dog long enough to have established a true pack yet. You can't be alpha without a pack because a pack has trust and set rules and roles for those within it to live by. The techniques you are using will only work if you have trust in a pack established. Since that isn't the case, you are just seeming like an intruder and one that is being mean on top of it. A 10 month old teenage husky is a rogue and still learning it's place in the world. So, he is going to test boundries and rightfully so.

Basically, you have a lot of miscommunication set up with this dog. You need to start over with a new plan. Stop confronting your dog every day for now. Eventually, you will get the results you are looking for.

I'm sorry if I come off harsh, but this really is a life or death moment for this dog. Take is seriously and find a new plan to manage his issues.
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Chelle and the rest of the crew including, but not limited to Kita and Taiko (the shiba inu wrestle maniacs), Adi (reserved and dignified tabby cat), and all 28 reptiles

Thanks for your replies wpgleaser and Chelle.
Chelle, I respect your oppinion compleatly. That's something I am concerned about, him eventually going strait to biting. I've read a bunch of books on dogs, siberian huskies specifically also but never could find anything with any great detail about agression.
I would pretend to be eatting his food a bit first and then let him come, as I've seen wolves do and I think that's why he was letting me have the right to take it back befor but now that he has become paranoid again he just eats it fast and eventually growls so I stop petting him or move the petting a little farther from his head. I've learned now not to just take it away unless he doesn't wait till I give him permission to eat and my hand is still on the bowl.
I've been wanting to get another dog but I don't really have the money at the moment or the energy. I walk every where, I don't have a car and that means if I go far I bring him. I don't know if I can handle walking for hours with two dogs.
He does some what like pulling me on my bike but resents it if he conciders it work. So in the future that will probably make travel easier if I had two and could train the other to pull(there's hiking/bike paths to get to the city by)I have a racing harness that my uncle gave me and when he gets fed up he pulls it over his head and starts chewing on it.
I'll take it slower and see how it goes in the next month. I talked a bit with the owner of a dog sled company and he seems to want to help, he has 50 some dogs though so I don't know if he really worries about food handling and bones but I think he'll let me come and help with the dogs in the spring and bring Yukon so that might help alot too.
Thanks, I'll look for those books
Josh

>>Thanks for your replies wpgleaser and Chelle.
>>Chelle, I respect your oppinion compleatly. That's something I am concerned about, him eventually going strait to biting. I've read a bunch of books on dogs, siberian huskies specifically also but never could find anything with any great detail about agression.
>> I would pretend to be eatting his food a bit first and then let him come, as I've seen wolves do and I think that's why he was letting me have the right to take it back befor but now that he has become paranoid again he just eats it fast and eventually growls so I stop petting him or move the petting a little farther from his head. I've learned now not to just take it away unless he doesn't wait till I give him permission to eat and my hand is still on the bowl.
>>I've been wanting to get another dog but I don't really have the money at the moment or the energy. I walk every where, I don't have a car and that means if I go far I bring him. I don't know if I can handle walking for hours with two dogs.
>> He does some what like pulling me on my bike but resents it if he conciders it work. So in the future that will probably make travel easier if I had two and could train the other to pull(there's hiking/bike paths to get to the city by)I have a racing harness that my uncle gave me and when he gets fed up he pulls it over his head and starts chewing on it.
>>I'll take it slower and see how it goes in the next month. I talked a bit with the owner of a dog sled company and he seems to want to help, he has 50 some dogs though so I don't know if he really worries about food handling and bones but I think he'll let me come and help with the dogs in the spring and bring Yukon so that might help alot too.
>> Thanks, I'll look for those books
>>Josh

>>>>>>>>>>>>

Read the "Food Guarding" article at the educational site below my signature. No one there is selling anything and it's free to access, no need to even register. In that same Table of Contents you will find many, many articles about dog handling and training. Reading is no substitute for working with an expert in person, but it should help you recognize the right kind of expert.
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Kathy Diamond Davis, author, "Therapy Dogs: Training Your Dog to Reach Others," 2nd edition, and the free Canine Behavior Series articles at http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=SRC&S=1&SourceID=47

Those are great articles!
I hope to find someone who can help near me soon. I've been giving him alot more space with his food bowl and already he seems more trusting of my hand when he's chewing somethng he shouldn't be. I've had to take something from him twice and he didn't growl at all. Opened his mouth and when I asked. I'm proud of him.
So acording to that food garding article arming myself with food seems a good idea. Now I guess I'll have to worry about other dogs.
Josh

In college, I once made friends with a stray cat that lived behind my apartment building. In the beginning it wouldn't come near me and would run right away. Then slowly, after feeding it raw chicken scraps/guts, it got to trust me. Eventually it would rub against me. Later, he'd let me touch him. Eventually, he'd come when called and climb all over me, letting me pet him.

It can be done. Trust can be accomplished. In my case, this was basically a wild animal. You have a head start. Sit by his food bowl while he eats. When he realized you're not a threat, he'll let you get away with more. Then you need to actually make sure he knows YOU'RE the boss...

Walt

>>Those are great articles!
>>I hope to find someone who can help near me soon. I've been giving him alot more space with his food bowl and already he seems more trusting of my hand when he's chewing somethng he shouldn't be. I've had to take something from him twice and he didn't growl at all. Opened his mouth and when I asked. I'm proud of him.
>> So acording to that food garding article arming myself with food seems a good idea. Now I guess I'll have to worry about other dogs.
>> Josh

Be sure to read the article on Defensive Dog Behavior, too, and Destructive chewing. To get the dog to give you something, get playful and move away from him, backing up, beckoning, even turning and running away, with your face turning back to him to tease him to run after you. Make it a game where his role is to chase you and persuade you to accept the item from him.

This really does work, builds your recall and your retrieve both, and of course doesn't trigger any defensive behavior at all. Praise him and give him something good in return. Rather than a treat, most of the time I'd give him a good chew toy as the swap, and tease him JUST A LITTLE with it, to get him really wanting it before you give it to him and leave him with it to chew. This teaches him to chew the things you provide for the purpose.

It all takes time. What you are doing is building your dog's belief system. Part of that belief system is that you are the source of all his needs. Doesn't matter if other people provide part of his care, because a huge part of his needs involves knowing his place in the world and how to interact with people, exercise, mental stimulation, outings, etc. You do this stuff, and leadership happens automatically. He will choose to follow you, because you will obviously be worthy of it.
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Kathy Diamond Davis, author, "Therapy Dogs: Training Your Dog to Reach Others," 2nd edition, and the free Canine Behavior Series articles at http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=SRC&S=1&SourceID=47