Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I saw a Chocolate lab about 8 mo at petsmart today. He was wearing an anti-pull harness. My problem is the harness he had on seemed to be restricting his motion. the harness went across the front of his chest around the ribcage and over his shoulders The leash hooked to the side of the harness around the area of his elbow.
So my cerious side got the best of me I went and Dragged Dave and Buster My Min pin over to the collars and leashes section. and proceeded to try and find the harness that this lab had on but of course they didn't have the same kind. The only kind that they had was the one that attaches to a collar goes between the front legs and up around the rib cage and up to the back right behind the choulder blades or in that area. the leash attaches to that end. The only thing that I didn't like about that harness was the fast that it seemed to put alot of pressure on the back of the neck. Which bothers me too. But I tend to worry. -ugh-
Do these harnesses Really restrict the movement or is that jsut me seeing whats not there.
Here is a link to the one that I was able to find in the store that I tried on buster WHo was a good sport.
www.petsmart.com/global/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441774897&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302032961&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302023689&bmUID=1141003959850

This is the link to the one that I saw on the Chocolate lab
store.yahoo.net/natureofthepet/eawaahainrem.html
Any help would be great
Sara

I appoligize for the way that my post was streched out across the screen.

>>My problem is the harness he had on seemed to be restricting his motion. the harness went across the front of his chest around the ribcage and over his shoulders The leash hooked to the side of the harness around the area of his elbow.

We too have had trouble with loose leash walking. The training center we use introduced us to a SENSE-ation harness; it looks similar to the link you provided for the harness you saw on the lab. However, the leash attaches to the front of the harness (chest) and when fitted correctly does not restrict the dogs motion.

Below is a picture of our PH in it 2 years ago. We often used a combination of both the collar and the harness. In this picture her collar anchors her to a tie out and the harness is slightly out of position, but it gives a good idea.

We since have used a larger one of the SENSE-ation harnesses with our old RR mix, also with good success. And, we are currently working with our new RR puppy using a front clip harness by BeBop.

The key we found is to get the proper fit, and to be consistent. On the web site for the manufacturer of the harness we have for our PH and RR mix is a very good page about getting these fit correctly, www.softouchconcepts.com/support/fitting_instructions.html.

Most pet stores now carry a third version of this front clip harness, I believe made by the same folks that make the Gentle L.

If you can find a local training shop that is familiar with these harnesses they can really help you put the tool to the best use.

.

-----
tabitha
Kayo, Kahla, and Dante'

Thank you for sharing that link. I'm not considering using one on my dog but I was just wondering about them in case for some reason I decide I would like to go that route verse my current training methoed
Sara

>>Thank you for sharing that link. I'm not considering using one on my dog but I was just wondering about them in case for some reason I decide I would like to go that route verse my current training methoed
>>Sara

>>>>>>>>

The harness works by putting pressure on points that create enough "discomfort" to make the dog stop pulling. I won't use them. Time will tell what the results will be, since they are very popular. But a device that hurts when the dog pulls is not my idea of training.
-----
Kathy Diamond Davis, author, "Therapy Dogs: Training Your Dog to Reach Others," 2nd edition, and the free Canine Behavior Series articles at http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=SRC&S=1&SourceID=47

I tried the one made by the Gentle Leader company on my older shiba that pulls. It actually worked better on her than a regular Gentle Leader (which shuts her down completely). It's a "shiba thing" to tend not to like that much restraint as a Gentle Leader. For her, she remained quite neutral in it and didn't pull nearly as hard as normal, but it didn't stop her from pulling if she really chose to dig in and go for something. So, unfortuantely, I think this would work only on really soft dogs and since I have one of those, I put it on him as an experiment. He HATED the anit-pull harness, yet tolerates a Gentle Leader.

So, overall, I think like any tool, you have to know your dog and know how to use the tool correctly. Still, no tool is a substitute for good practice and training.
-----
Chelle and the rest of the crew including, but not limited to Kita and Taiko (the shiba inu wrestle maniacs), Adi (reserved and dignified tabby cat), and all 28 reptiles

>>The harness works by putting pressure on points that create enough "discomfort" to make the dog stop pulling. I won't use them. Time will tell what the results will be, since they are very popular. But a device that hurts when the dog pulls is not my idea of training.
>>-----
>>Kathy Diamond Davis, author, "Therapy Dogs: Training Your Dog to Reach Others," 2nd edition, and the free Canine Behavior Series articles at http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=SRC&S=1&SourceID=47

Pharaoh Hounds are a breed that does NOT respond to "discomfort" training methods. These dogs are stubborn and sensitive. They are also intelligent and food motivated. The key is to communicate clearly with these guys (respect their intelligence), reinforce positively, and be consistent. I honestly don't think anyone can create a good working bond with one of these guys through negative (or discomfort) methods.

With the big soft martingale collars often used with these long, skinny-necked dogs (to protect their trachea) teaching a loose leash walk can be impossible with the high drive dogs. This harness (when used properly) fits these dogs very well.

The front clip harness does work with pressure, but there should not be any discomfort. If the dog feels any discomfort then there is an error on the human side. This error could be that it is the wrong training aid for the dog, incorrectly fitted, or incorrectly used. Just as with many other training devices, this is not the right tool for all dogs and all humans.

The harness works with giving cues to the dog based on pressure. For example, if the dog is moving in front of you a slight upward pull gives slight pressure at the sides of the girth slightly behind the shoulders resulting in an opposition reflex of stopping. Now add positive reinforcement, when you've properly communicate to the dog what action you want and the dog does the behavior. When used properly the front lead harness provides additional communication with the dog, not discomfort. That's a powerful training aid.

Now, my big challenge is to try and get control off leash. Once we can, we'll be able to move to Rally Advance. A good connection when working with these guys is such a reward, because you (the human) have done something right. This little girl is a LOT of work, but through all this work, she has firmly worked herself into our hearts.
-----
tabitha
Kayo, Kahla, and Dante'

You're right, the front-clip harness doesn't operate on the "inducing pain" theory. If the dog pulls, it turns the shoulders towards the handler, which is a different philosophy than the sporn, no pull harness -- that is to induce pain.

And, as with anything, it is a tool, and doesn't train the dog. I like the front-clip harness MUCH better than the gentle leader, and in my opinion, it has less risk of doing serious damage (top of the neck problems induced by tension created by the gentle leader versus low neck/shoulder problems). I tried the version made by the gentle leader people, but their front-clip harness didn't fit as well -- I didn't like it.

What the other people posting have said is important (proper fit). But of course they restrict movement. Restricting the movement is what makes these devices work!
The point is to restrict the type of body movement used when a dog pulls.

I think they're better than constantly jerking on a choke or prong collar. But they still require a leash giggle to remind the pooch not to forge ahead. Most young vigorous dogs will still need plenty of intervention by the dog walker to make them learn that the point is to avoid any leash pressure.