Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi, I have two questions regarding our dog, Hailey, who is a Miniature Schnauzer who just turned 2. She is on the small side, 11lbs, full of puppy energy, and relishes the center of attention. My husband and I don't have kids (someday, maybe), and while she is spoiled to some extent, we don't treat her like a princess, either. I'm going to go ahead and make this a long message... hopefully, the more information, the better.

Hailey is a talker. She loves to bark, gurgle, whine, gargle, grumble, etc. We don't mind her talking, and we often respond to most of her sounds (except barks). We converse with her and she with us... much like a Siamese talks. We do not respond to barking, though, expect with 'no bark' and some other tactics I'll mention in a bit. When she barks, though, it is often quite aggressive. Even such a small dog can make people shy away when her barking is so excited and so aggressive. She has never ever bitten anyone (although she mouths on my husband some when they play).

The problem is that she barks excessively in some situations. For example, when someone comes to the door, we think it is perfectly normal for her to bark... maybe for a minute while people are coming in and she is being acquainted. After that, however, we want her to stop. We'd like to interrupt her, but she'll just keep barking. We've tried 'no bark', placing her outside or in another room, praising her when she takes a breath from barking, ordering her to 'sit', having people pet or pick her up (which sometimes will quiet her)... but nothing really works. She gets in these cycles. She'll occasionally do it with just my husband and I, even if we play with her and try to wear her out.

In the backyard, she'll normally be quiet, but sometimes she gets in the same cycle. We understand that some barking is normal, but after five minutes, we think that she should come inside or quit. If we bring her in, she'll want back out, and we can't get her to quit if she's outside. The same happens on short trips. I'd love to be able to take her with me to garage sales, outdoor events, and short car trips. We've experimented with doing that some, but she just barks at everyone the whole time. Take a garage sale. I'll first ask politely if it's ok that my dog (who is leashed) comes with me as I look around. Almost everyone says 'sure.' I'll bring her up the driveway, looking at tables, etc, as we go. She'll bark for a minute at the garage sale holders, who will talk to her and comment on her cuteness. Then, as each new person comes to the sale, she'll bark, and not just for a minute. She'll bark and bark and bark. I'll try all the things I mentioned earlier. Once in a while, one will work or she'll tire of barking at them. If that happens, and she's quiet, I'll praise her a bunch! Other times, she'll bark so much that I have to pay and leave because I don't want to be rude and scare off other salers. I'd love to leave her in the car for five minutes (when it's not hot! and with the windows cracked) while I run in to drop off library books, etc, but she'll bark at anything and nothing the WHOLE time.

We're reluctant to use a bark collar. We don't mind her 'talking.' We don't want to stop the barking completely or punish her for normal barking... we just want something or some strategy to interrupt the excessive barking cycles. Someone suggested a silent dog whistle, so I bought one, but now I don't know how to use it for that purpose. Would that work? To startle her and get her attention while we try to distract her from barking? Thanks for ANY barking suggestions.

Okay, question two. (I know... you'd think I'd be done!) Hailey was extremely difficult to potty train. She was my first dog and my husband's first dog since childhood, and we both work full time. It took us months to train her. We read every book, and the vet was in constant consult. Even the vet agrees: Hailey just doesn't like to go outside. She prefers any place (except our bedroom- which she must view as a den) to outside. We finally got her mostly trained at about 7 months, and she has been slipsliding back and forth between trained and not ever since. Lately, things have been getting worse. We'll let her out after meals, after play, after sleep. We'll walk her out... we'll watch her go. But somehow, she slips past us at random moments and heads to another room to pee or poop. Even if we use baby gates to block off the upstairs and not-currently-being-used-at-that-second rooms, she'll still slip past to an ungated area and find a corner to go. It is incredibly frustrating. We can't lose sight of her for a second. We haven't had any major life changes, but over the past couple of months, it's gotten worse. We've spoken to the vet, and there is no physical problems with her urinary tract or her bowels. In fact, she is an incredibly healthy little dog.

We don't punish her or hit her. She's gotten a tap on the rear here and there (but very seldom, since we know it doesn't really work). We raise our voices in frustration sometimes, but again, we know she doesn't really know why, and it just seems like attention, so we don't do it as often as we feel like it! She's got a crate that she hangs out in during the day while we're at work, but we're reluctant to shut her in it as a punishment, and the vet doesn't recommend doing so. She's been to basic obedience class and passed just fine. She can sit, lay down, stay, and come (although the last two are not perfect.)

If you need more information, just ask. We are in the market for any tips!! (Especially how/whether to use that dog whistle effectively!) Thank you for your time!

OK, a lot of this is 'the terrible twos' where dogs really test their owners and owners who have a few lax rules find themselves with a pushy dog that is trying to control them instead of it being the other way around.

First, make sure the potty issue is not a bladder infection or something along that nature. If it isn't, then it's a control thing. The barking is as well. Also, it sounds like in spite of your efforts to curb the barking, you've accidentally reinforced it. Timing with barking is a tough thing to deal with. I have found praising once the dog has stopped barking doesn't get the effects one would like sadly. Once the adrenalin and self-rewarding behavior of barking has started, your opportunities to train are lost. Barking has to be curbed BEFORE it ever starts so when you see something that will trigger barking, you circumvent it and praise for NO noise in that sitaution.

Dr. Ian Dunbar is a great author and dog trainer. I'm 100% sure if you picked up any of his books you could curb these behaviors you are trying to. One book in particular I'd recommend is "You Can Teach an Old Dog New Tricks."

The pottying in the house, again if it's not medical, you may want to leash your dog to you so you can supervise 100% of the tim until this habit is broken. Use an enzyme cleaner like Nature's Miracle to clean up the former dog spots. If there is any residual odar left after an accident, the dog will be drawn to that spot again.

Lastly, a positive reinforcement training class for your dog would be wonderful. You have a smart pup that I'm sure wants to do the right thing. It's just a bit confused and a bit stubborn. Classes teach you how to communicate effectively with your dog and teach it you are to be listened to and respected. training does not have to be mean, boring, or too repetitious to be of benefit. I do about 5 minutes a day with my two. Nothing formal, just a few refreshers.

Good luck, I'm sure your issues can be resolved.
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Chelle and the rest of the crew including, but not limited to Kita and Taiko (the shiba inu wrestle maniacs), Adi (reserved and dignified tabby cat), and all 28 reptiles

You need to do more dog-training class with her. She needs to be evaluated in person by a veterinary behavior specialist who can help you get on the right track and probably do some work with a trainer--but only one who comes recommended by the veterinary behavior specialist. You find this specialist through your regular vet.

A head halter will give you control over the barking, but you will need some private lessons to learn to use it correctly.

Since you are planning to have kids, this all needs to be solidly handled now. Start with the veterinary behavior specialist. You're going to need to learn some handling skills to work with this dog. I don't hear anything that makes me think she's actually aggressive, but you need expert help if you are going to successfully keep her with children. Some of the things you're doing can make her worse. A shock collar (or electronic collar if you like that term better) would make things worse.

You can get some ideas from the articles at the link below my name, but I really believe you need prompt help in person, before the dog becomes even older and more set in her ways.
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Kathy Diamond Davis, author, "Therapy Dogs: Training Your Dog to Reach Others," 2nd edition, and the free Canine Behavior Series articles at http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=SRC&S=1&SourceID=47

This might sound rude- but I don't mean it to be:
You have a lemon of a dog.

Now, that being said - I should also give the opinion that this fact should be liberating because it's not something you did that made her that way.

1- Housebreaking: Tiny dogs are harder to housebreak than big ones. I work full time. My male setter pup was housebroken in 4 days. Not because I'm a great trainer - it's because he's a great dog. Also, tiny female dogs are often the worst. The problem, when you have a dog like this- is- in order to completely housetrain her you'd need to be draconian in your strict adherence to tight confinement 100% of the time, except for 1/2 hour or so after she's successfully gone outside (and you watch her constantly during that 1/2 hour of inside freedom). I would never let her out alone - you must go out with her -until she's mostly housebroken. I'd say completely housebroken but I don't believe that's going to happen.

My guess is that at her age, you won't have this kind of diligence and will have to accept another year or so of accidents. Eventually by 2 or 3 she's likely to be trained and then by 5 or 6 will start up with mistakes again which will come and go periodically for the life of the dog.

(If you had her spayed before 6 months I would give up hope of her ever being housebroken.)

2- BARKING. Her breeder should be dragged out in the street, run over, revived, and run over again. The reason I say this is because I'm SURE at least one of her parents was an incessant barker. You should have been warned. You CAN improve this situation by keeping a schedule and rewarding her when she's quiet at least a dozen times a day. Say something like, "quiet" or "no barking" or "stop barking" and reward when she's already not barking. The next phase will be harder: try giving her the cue when she IS barking and about to pause for a second - and reward the non-barking. This will be difficult but not impossible. Finally, try to stop her from barking with the cue when she first starts up.

Miniature Schnauzers are notorious for barking. Some people have had some success training them to bark less. There is a great dog book writer- Daniel Tortora that addesses this somewhat in a few of his books. (He actually had a barking mini which he raised to be a quiet dog.)

But I wouldn't hold out much hope for A LOT of success. In time you might grow used to her bad qualities and tolerate them more.