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Please explain something to me about Pit Bull Terriers. I understand that there are many people out there who love these dogs, my sister has owned two females for 11 years now and they have always been the sweetest animals you could ever meet. They were brought up with a older collie and and Austrailian Shepherd since they were young pups. My sister and brother-in-law are loving pet owners, never chained these dogs, paid a lot of attention to them, loved them as though they were their children. Could you please explain to me then why last week Friday one (or both, we're not totally certain it was just one) of the pits tortured, savagely bit, tore and mutilated the 13 year old Austrialian Shepherd?? Sophie was 13 years old, an extremely quiet dog (she was old and slept most of the time these past few months)never showed any agression towards the pits that could possibly provoke this horrible thing to happen to her. She could barely walk and kept to herself most of the time. The Pit Bulls were never abused, never hit EVER, slept on my sisters bed for all the 11 years of their lives, were never tortured by any children (my sister does not have any) They were kept in the house (full run of the house, not locked down the cellar or confined in any way.) Can someone please give me any insight that might help me to understand how these dogs could just turn on a sibling dog in such a violent, horrible way? I read on every message board that it's the owner not the breed that is to blame...well, i'm sorry...i disagree with this theory. These two dogs could not have had better owners, a better life or more love than any dogs i have ever know. Sophie was a poor, sickly (however not prone to seizures or anything of the such to perhaps provoke the pits to attack her) she had really not much energy in her to even just walk around, but they tortured this poor old dog so horribly that i cannot sleep at night since seeing what they did (thank God i didn't actually have to see the poor dog...however what i did see was the most horrific scene a person could ever witness. They chased this poor pup through 3 rooms and tore and ravaged her body...the poor thing tried to get away but was unable to....i cleaned up blood stains from 3 rooms, dog feces from where they must have pinned her to the wall and scared her so badly that she defecated...can someone please shed some light on how people can say these dogs shouldn't get a bad rap after what i have seen this past weekend? It took me 3 hours to clean up the horror...there was blood, feces, chunks of hair and skin that they tore from her poor frail body everywhere throughout the house! There weren't any toys laying around that they might have tried to fight for (Sophie was too old to even want to play, she slept most of the time) I don't know how people can survive after seeing a murder scene...i'm traumatized to the point that i've had to take Xanax and sleeping medicines just to try to deal with the horrific scenes that keep playing in my head. There is no possible way that Sophie could have provoked these two dogs, these two supposedly sweet dogs that i have know in my life for 11 years, to torture her so savagely. I am so distraught over this and my sister who found her Aussie (she was at work during the attack) is close to having a nervous breakdown! There were no signs that these dogs were on the brink of doing something this terrible...can someone please help me understand? I love all animals, and i did have a cocker spaniel who was slightly viscious and did bite all of us one time or another,so i am well aware that there are other breeds of dogs that bite and can be viscious, but she never, NEVER attacked, ripped flesh from or tortured any of my family or my cats.

I know Pits get a bad rap, and i was until recently one of the people who would stand up for them and say it's all in how they're treated, but i can no longer express the same feelings towards this breed after seeing such a horrible thing happen to this poor, defenseless dog. I'm sorry if i anger any of the people on this message board with this post, but i just had to write down my thoughts regarding how horrible our family is taking what happened (we had the pits put down today, which, even though our vet said it was the right thing to do and i really never could have been in the same room with them ever again after knowing how they mutilated that poor dog, it did break my heart) The only thing them calms me is that at least they were given a more humane end to their lives than what poor Sophie went through.

I will never be the same after this and i cannot even imagine the horror my sister is going through. I'm sorry, i really don't think there are ANY really sweet pit bulls....not if they can tear apart a dog and kill her in such a brutal way for no reason, with no signs of this possibly ever happening that might have sent a sign that we might have been able to stop it before it ever happened. This was an off the wall, full fledge attack on an innocent dog and my heart will be broken forever.

>>Please explain something to me about Pit Bull Terriers. I understand that there are many people out there who love these dogs, my sister has owned two females for 11 years now and they have always been the sweetest animals you could ever meet. They were brought up with a older collie and and Austrailian Shepherd since they were young pups. My sister and brother-in-law are loving pet owners, never chained these dogs, paid a lot of attention to them, loved them as though they were their children. Could you please explain to me then why last week Friday one (or both, we're not totally certain it was just one) of the pits tortured, savagely bit, tore and mutilated the 13 year old Austrialian Shepherd?? Sophie was 13 years old, an extremely quiet dog (she was old and slept most of the time these past few months)never showed any agression towards the pits that could possibly provoke this horrible thing to happen to her. She could barely walk and kept to herself most of the time. The Pit Bulls were never abused, never hit EVER, slept on my sisters bed for all the 11 years of their lives, were never tortured by any children (my sister does not have any) They were kept in the house (full run of the house, not locked down the cellar or confined in any way.) Can someone please give me any insight that might help me to understand how these dogs could just turn on a sibling dog in such a violent, horrible way? I read on every message board that it's the owner not the breed that is to blame...well, i'm sorry...i disagree with this theory. These two dogs could not have had better owners, a better life or more love than any dogs i have ever know. Sophie was a poor, sickly (however not prone to seizures or anything of the such to perhaps provoke the pits to attack her) she had really not much energy in her to even just walk around, but they tortured this poor old dog so horribly that i cannot sleep at night since seeing what they did (thank God i didn't actually have to see the poor dog...however what i did see was the most horrific scene a person could ever witness. They chased this poor pup through 3 rooms and tore and ravaged her body...the poor thing tried to get away but was unable to....i cleaned up blood stains from 3 rooms, dog feces from where they must have pinned her to the wall and scared her so badly that she defecated...can someone please shed some light on how people can say these dogs shouldn't get a bad rap after what i have seen this past weekend? It took me 3 hours to clean up the horror...there was blood, feces, chunks of hair and skin that they tore from her poor frail body everywhere throughout the house! There weren't any toys laying around that they might have tried to fight for (Sophie was too old to even want to play, she slept most of the time) I don't know how people can survive after seeing a murder scene...i'm traumatized to the point that i've had to take Xanax and sleeping medicines just to try to deal with the horrific scenes that keep playing in my head. There is no possible way that Sophie could have provoked these two dogs, these two supposedly sweet dogs that i have know in my life for 11 years, to torture her so savagely. I am so distraught over this and my sister who found her Aussie (she was at work during the attack) is close to having a nervous breakdown! There were no signs that these dogs were on the brink of doing something this terrible...can someone please help me understand? I love all animals, and i did have a cocker spaniel who was slightly viscious and did bite all of us one time or another,so i am well aware that there are other breeds of dogs that bite and can be viscious, but she never, NEVER attacked, ripped flesh from or tortured any of my family or my cats.
>>
>>I know Pits get a bad rap, and i was until recently one of the people who would stand up for them and say it's all in how they're treated, but i can no longer express the same feelings towards this breed after seeing such a horrible thing happen to this poor, defenseless dog. I'm sorry if i anger any of the people on this message board with this post, but i just had to write down my thoughts regarding how horrible our family is taking what happened (we had the pits put down today, which, even though our vet said it was the right thing to do and i really never could have been in the same room with them ever again after knowing how they mutilated that poor dog, it did break my heart) The only thing them calms me is that at least they were given a more humane end to their lives than what poor Sophie went through.
>>
>>I will never be the same after this and i cannot even imagine the horror my sister is going through. I'm sorry, i really don't think there are ANY really sweet pit bulls....not if they can tear apart a dog and kill her in such a brutal way for no reason, with no signs of this possibly ever happening that might have sent a sign that we might have been able to stop it before it ever happened. This was an off the wall, full fledge attack on an innocent dog and my heart will be broken forever.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This kind of behavior is genetic, and not specific to pit bulls. For more understanding of why it happened, read the articles "Terrier Traits" and "Same Sex Dogs in the Home" at the link below my signature.
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Kathy Diamond Davis, author, "Therapy Dogs: Training Your Dog to Reach Others," 2nd edition, and the free Canine Behavior Series articles at http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=SRC&S=1&SourceID=47

Yep I agree I had a Chow Chow and a Shiba Inu both females that would try to kill each other, once they decided they didn't like each othre that was it. I re-homed the Chow Chow, Pippin, because I felt it was better for all of us. She has a wonderful home and the new owner knows not to let her be around any female dogs. My Shiba Ruffian is selective about the females and alot easier going as she gets older.

Side note neither of these dogs have ever showen any human aggresion.

And as pits were bred for dog aggresion, they may be fine with othre dogs and then they may not be.

Hi,

I know you have heard this before but I am deeply sorry for what happened. I am definitely not an expert on Pits but I do have a Pit mix so I can speak only based on my experiences. I do believe strongly that with this breed it is mostly the way they are raised and treated by their owner/s, however like any breed I also believe there are exceptions to the rule. There can be a bad seeds found in any number of breeds and in that case even the best, most loving owner may be helpless.

What I've noticed many people commenting on is that Pit Bulls were bred to fight, and that is true and one should never forgot that when owning one. My girl is about 2 1/2 years old and was found on the street at around 6 months. I have no idea about her history and she is a terrific dog, but I am cautious with her, not for me but for others around us. She is protective of me, but wonderful around people and children. She is also amazing and gentle with small animals. She used to be great with all dogs, but lately I notice she does show aggression torwards some and not others. Mainly if they are on a leash, but it has gotten worse in the past few months. And I do know from past experience with others, that multiple female Pits do not do well together.

From my experience they are wonderful dogs with people, and can be wonderful with other dogs but I wouldn't say all other dogs all the time. Like I said before, people have bred them for years to be aggressive with other dogs especially their own kind...so one should always be cautious, but please don't be to judgmental of their actions, because it is our actions through the years of breeding these beautiful dogs that have made them this way.

Again, I'm sorry to hear about your loss and this is in no way suppose to make everything better, just a little insight.

-Harley

I'm really sorry to read this post. What a horrific experience.

I can't say I completely understand what motivates or provokes dogs, but overall I can say with a lot of certainty that unfortuantely to these dogs that is what they felt they needed to do. Dogs are dogs and don't live by the morals of humans. Typically this scenario would not happen in a multi dog household, but it can especially when the dogs are the same gender and the breeds involved are a bit more "wired" for dog aggression than some other breeds. I'm guessing there was some sort of pack shift due to another dog entering or leaving the pack or even something in the human pack that caused a disturbance. This poor older dog either became a percieved threat or something else.

I'm really sorry you had to deal with such an experience. My deepest condolences.
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Chelle and the rest of the crew including, but not limited to Kita and Taiko (the shiba inu wrestle maniacs), Adi (reserved and dignified tabby cat), and all 28 reptiles

Hey Chelle...thanks so much for the kind words, i was really worried that everyone would hate me for writing this message about what happened, but i've been so distraught this was sort of a "group therapy" vent for me. I'm still mourning the loss of not only my sister's Aussie, but also losing the two pits....i just can't understand why after 11 years of these two dogs being the sweetest things you've ever met, they suddenly either one or both of them could become so viscious. I hated the fact that the pitbulls had to be put down, but my brother-in-law (who loved these two dogs so much and it broke my heart to see him so sad)didn't feel comfortable leaving these dogs alone anymore with my sister. We're pretty sure it was only the one dog that did it, but those two sister's (they were from the same litter) were so attached to each other that i think the one wouldn't have lasted too long without the other. The only thing that somewhat comforts me (and it's really not a comfort, just some reasoning that i have in my mind i guess) is that they both came into this world together and left together and left in a more humane way than poor Sophie did.

I don't want everyone on this board to think i am bashing the breed...as i said in my first message, i was one of the people who have stood up for this breed because i saw how they really could be sweet dogs, but after this i just can't totally believe it anymore. I'm just so hurt for my sister and brother-in-law, the Aussie and the two pits....it's been one heck of a horrible week and i just hope that we all can get over this tragedy soon. I found a collie puppy for my sister (she lost her collie in November from cancer too...this has been one heck of a few rotten months!!) and we're supposed to go get either one of hopefully two of them on Sunday. It won't take away the pain of losing these three dogs (and i do mean, i feel horrible about losing the pits too, but i could never look at them again after seeing what they did) but hopefully, it will bring some happiness back into my sister's house again.

Thank you all for listening to me vent about this tragedy, and i hope i haven't offended you all...that wasn't my intent on the posting. I was just so upset and this was my way of trying to get some understanding of what could have happened. I'm sure this breed is still a fine breed of dog, but i don't think i could ever trust one again.

Thank you again for the kind words...hopefully now the healing will begin...

Take care and Thanks!!

Hard decisions have to be made sometimes and I think under the circumstances the you did what was best for the family. There's never an easy answer for the type of situation you described and the trauma from such events will probably haunt everyone for quite some time.

I did not take your post as a bashing of the breed. You obviously loved all the dogs involved and your post was full of caring for those lost.

Do your best to move on and start the healing process. I hope you find it in your heart to forgive the breed someday and you know in your heart that it was circumstance that brought the dogs to the situation.

When these two puppies come into your lives, that will help I'm sure. Please make sure the two new ones are of opposite gender. That would be very helpful these puppies greatly. Also, you may want to consider getting only one puppy right now so it can become a very confident individual before bringing home another dog for it to live with.

These are just suggestions to think about.

Enjoy the new addition/s to the family. Healing will just take some time.
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Chelle and the rest of the crew including, but not limited to Kita and Taiko (the shiba inu wrestle maniacs), Adi (reserved and dignified tabby cat), and all 28 reptiles

If you do get two puppies, be sure to get opposite sex, not same sex. You don't want another dog war, and it can happen in Collies, too, if they are same sex, especially female. Before you adopt, I hope you'll find time to read a couple of the articles at the link below my name. Read Same Sex Dogs in the Home, and also read Two Puppies or One?
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Kathy Diamond Davis, author, "Therapy Dogs: Training Your Dog to Reach Others," 2nd edition, and the free Canine Behavior Series articles at http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=SRC&S=1&SourceID=47

Darla,

I am very sorry to hear of your recient loss. Its a very tragic situation.

I am new to this board but not new to the breed-APBT.

Unfortunatly many people feel that raising a pitbull with other dogs, they will be fine but owning this breed, people need to understand what they have been bred for for hundreds of years.

APBT's are wonderful dogs in the right hands. Very people friendly dogs. They are not a dog that should be raised in the adverage multi dog house hold for the unfortunate reasons that has happened to your sister.

I have been envolved in rescue (privatly) for over 18 yrs now and I have gotten so many calls from owners who felt that if the dogs were raised together, there wouldnt be any problems. This is so far from the truth. The breed is a fighting breed and owners need to understand this and take such precautions.

I personaly have owned this breed for over 26 yrs now. Im very active in showing and weightpulling and have had a hobby kennel for almost as long as I have had this breed. None of my dogs are allowed to play with each other once they hit a certain age. Its hard to keep them this way and takes alot of my time to exersise them all. But it is the only way that is safe to house them. Not all pitbulls have this desire to fight but if they do, its not worth the results.

Dog aggression and people aggression are 2 totally different things. Because a pitbull has a desire to fight does not mean they are people aggressive.

The old tymers would cull out a people aggressive pitbull and todays responsible breeders will also. 99.9% of this breed are people friendly and must be taught (weather intentionally or not) to be people aggressive.

I have 2 australian shepherds that work the farm but also help us exersice any pups we may have. As the pups get older (6 mnths or so) the aussies have been known to give them a correction and it can cause problems.

Bottom line here is that anyone that is thinking of getting a pitbull should understand the greater responsiblity of owning such a breed. Taking the right precautions when owning any breed is worth its weight in gold.

Again, Im very sorry for your loss.

I agree with all of the above posts, and am also sorry for your loss.

However, I want to mention that with having two dogs (one or both being APBT)it is possible to allow interactions. BUT you must be very wise to body language, and must be sure your dogs are well trained as well. I have an APBT and an APBT mix who are not kept from each other, and do play very nice. However, I do not have toys or bones laying around as those things could easily start an arguement. Jealous behavior is also NOT allowed at all, as that would be another fight starter. Owning this breed is something that people need to prepare for as it's not like owning 2 hounds, etc. Would you expect to have a beagle and it be able to run off leash without EVER running away? It's possible but the chances are slim!

The three main things potential owners of the pitty breed need to be able to do are 1. Read dog body language clearly, 2. be sure to train the dog VERY well, and 3. if other dogs are in the household be sure all are crated or in separate rooms...NEVER left together unattended!!

Most fights will happen when an owner is not present and the dogs are left to make all of the calls on their own. They need their alpha there to explain to them in doggy fashion when a behavior is not needed and definitely not allowed!

I am a believer in Cesar Millans methods, they work, and he has proven it, as he has 30 plus dogs that came to him through rescue that were once killers, biters ect., he does not blame breed nor dog for what happened in the past.

as to what provoked what happened I dont know, I wasn't there, to blame the breed is irresponsible and ignorant IMO, no dog is born a killer.

the thing most people over look with this breed is to be in control you HAVE to be alpha, there are no 2 ways about it, otherwise there will be an attack.

it is a shame the about the aussie but it's also a shame about the pits, it was not planned by them but they got blamed anyway.

as for gender issues, we have 2 males here, they get along fine, infact the only fights we've ever had were male/female, and I admit we were not alpha in the pack then.
Cesar Millans dog psychology center

Besides dealing with the extreme sadness of the situation, the most important thing now -is mainly for your sister and her husband to make sure they take care to stack the odds in their favor that this never happens to them again.

The best solution would be to have one dog only - and to make it a member of a breed that the average specimen is low on dog/dog agression. Collie mix is probably a really good choice.Choosing a dog from a non dog aggressive breed is not a guarantee but it is certainly a better option than choosing a breed where the average specimen is dog agressive. (None is more so than the American Pit Bull Terrier.)

Other good choices besides a collie:
Setters. especially Irish and English
Brittany Spaniel
Vizsla
Poodles - standard or mini (not toy)
Sheltie

etc....the list is fairly long- But none of the terriers or bully breeds belong on this list.

For generations the pit bull has been bred for dog aggression. These dogs were only doing what they have been bred for. It is sad but the dogs should not be blamed.
One thing that we hear all the time is, it is how the dog is raised. That isn't true. The genetics behind the dog is the reason for the attack. Contrary to popular belief, the pit bull was not developed or bred for a house dog. He was bred for a warrior. He is the best there is for what he is bred for.
You would not take a greyhound and never expect it to want to run.
You would not take a bloodhound and expect it to never try to trail hunt.
You would never take a border collie and expect it to never try to herd.
You should never take a pit bull and expect it never to be aggressive to another dog.
Many times a dog has to pay for the mistakes of his owner. It was a mistake to expect a pit bull to never be aggressive. It was a mistake to leave two pitbulls free together without any supervision. It was a mistake to leave the pit bulls with any other dog.
It cost them their lives because of the mistakes of the owners.
Please do some research before taking a dog bred for a special purpose and expecting it to go against centurys of selective breeding.

I doubt anyone is still reading this thread, but I felt compelled to put in my two cents. As someone in a different response said, dogs are dogs. They don't live by our rules. The other dog was sick. Sick dogs weaken the pack, so she was taken out. They are not mean for doing what they did, and they most certainly should not have been euthanized for it. I've read that it's a common thing in Italian greyhounds to kill a sick or injured member of the pack. In their minds, they are doing what is necessary to strengthen the pack. If they were vicious, don't you think they'd have turned on each other? No, because they were both healthy, strong, pack members. They did what they felt needed to be done, and it would have been a lot more fair to get this explanation *before* euthanizing them, and maybe find them a new home where their behavior- as dogs- could be appreciated. Yes, it's terrible what they did, but it's even more terrible that two obviously very sweet, loving dogs were killed for doing something that in their world is not wrong. I have a dog now named Lucy. I wouldn't put it past her to kill my other dog if she was sick or injured. But I'm smart enough to know the difference between pack behavior and agression, and Lucy sleeps in my bedroom every night, and plays with my small children every day. I'd think twice about getting these people more dogs if I were you, at least until they've done some research dog pack behavior and learn what certain behaviors do and don't mean. What will happen when these little collie puppies make a wrong move? Euthanize, then ask questions? Sorry if it sounds harsh, but really, so is euthanizing two perfectly good dogs for being dogs.
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Kadee Sedtal
home of old lady Lucy (boxer/lab/garbage disposal), pretty girl Fancy (beagle), the rats- Chopin, Tchaikovsky, Pachebel, and Fillmore, and the mice- Vivaldi, Brahms, Schubert, Bartok, Rasputin, and Chaminade... I really ought to stop getting more rodents every time I go out, huh?