Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Welcome to kingsnake.com's message board system. Here you may share and discuss information with others about your favorite reptile and amphibian related topics such as care and feeding, caging requirements, permits and licenses, and more. Launched in 1997, the kingsnake.com message board system is one of the oldest and largest systems on the internet.

Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You
Click for ZooMed
Click here for Dragon Serpents

help please!

ryleesmama Jun 21, 2006 05:28 AM

Hi..
I have a 6yr old great dane/lab mix, male. I also have a 7 month old female choc lab. She is not fixed. We are planning on breeding them when she is old enough. I've been researching breeding info and heat cycles ect. But I have a question.

Max, the male, won't leave Molly alone. He is constantly licking her butt, shoulders, trying to hump her. He goes around licking every spot she layed on.

I thought that she had already gone into her first heat cycle a month or so ago, but now I'm not sure.

How do I get Max to stop? Or is this just going to be what I have to deal with?

Replies (24)

KDiamondDavis Jun 21, 2006 12:12 PM

>>Hi..
>>I have a 6yr old great dane/lab mix, male. I also have a 7 month old female choc lab. She is not fixed. We are planning on breeding them when she is old enough. I've been researching breeding info and heat cycles ect. But I have a question.
>>
>>Max, the male, won't leave Molly alone. He is constantly licking her butt, shoulders, trying to hump her. He goes around licking every spot she layed on.
>>
>>I thought that she had already gone into her first heat cycle a month or so ago, but now I'm not sure.
>>
>>How do I get Max to stop? Or is this just going to be what I have to deal with?

>>>>>>>>

This breeding could kill the female. You really should talk to your vet about it. Finding homes for the number of puppies they are likely to have would be another problem. It's not a good idea. And you won't believe the problems of having two intact dogs. The male gets more aggressive and does more urine marking after he's been bred. The female can be a biting risk when she has pups in the nest. There are so many risks.
-----
Kathy Diamond Davis, author, "Therapy Dogs: Training Your Dog to Reach Others," 2nd edition, and the free Canine Behavior Series articles at http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=SRC&S=1&SourceID=47

ryleesmama Jun 21, 2006 02:00 PM

thank you for your response and abvious concern. We have spoke to our vet about this. We began looking for a bitch to breed with our Max a few years ago. It wasn't a hasty decision, or a completely ignorant one either. We have definate homes for at least 6 pups at this point. And we would be keeping a pup. And so you know the breeders that we bought Molly from were/are aware that we planned to breed her with our Max. They actually want one of the pups.

We are not in any way wanting to breed Molly early. I certainly don't want any harm to come to Molly. That is why I'm on here asking questions. We have a visit planned with the vet in two weeks.. I'm looking to learn as much as I can. That is why I came to this forum.

I'm just wondering about the male dogs behavior when a bitch isn't in heat. Is it normal for him to still be all over her and wanting her? Or should that come and go with her heat cycles?

KDiamondDavis Jun 22, 2006 07:26 AM

>>thank you for your response and abvious concern. We have spoke to our vet about this. We began looking for a bitch to breed with our Max a few years ago. It wasn't a hasty decision, or a completely ignorant one either. We have definate homes for at least 6 pups at this point. And we would be keeping a pup. And so you know the breeders that we bought Molly from were/are aware that we planned to breed her with our Max. They actually want one of the pups.
>>
>>We are not in any way wanting to breed Molly early. I certainly don't want any harm to come to Molly. That is why I'm on here asking questions. We have a visit planned with the vet in two weeks.. I'm looking to learn as much as I can. That is why I came to this forum.
>>
>>I'm just wondering about the male dogs behavior when a bitch isn't in heat. Is it normal for him to still be all over her and wanting her? Or should that come and go with her heat cycles?

>>>>>>>>

The male may get interested long before she goes into heat. Some females won't say no when they need to. That can cause problems. You never want them to tie without you there to keep them calm. Either or both of them could be injured.
-----
Kathy Diamond Davis, author, "Therapy Dogs: Training Your Dog to Reach Others," 2nd edition, and the free Canine Behavior Series articles at http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=SRC&S=1&SourceID=47

ryleesmama Jun 22, 2006 12:18 PM

Thank You!

Thankfully Max hasn't tied with her. We have never noticed that Max's penis is out either. We keep them separated completely for the most part. When they are together my husband or I are with them. We never leave them alone. They are great companions, love to play with each other.

About two months ago I thought Molly was going through her first heat. We had just moved and every dog in the neighborhood was coming to our house to get around her. I thought that it seemed a bit early for her first heat, but seriously the male dogs coming around was constant. So could it be that she is actually begining to start her first heat now?

And can you reccomend some books on breeding?

Thank you again!

KDiamondDavis Jun 23, 2006 05:17 PM

>>Thank You!
>>
>>Thankfully Max hasn't tied with her. We have never noticed that Max's penis is out either. We keep them separated completely for the most part. When they are together my husband or I are with them. We never leave them alone. They are great companions, love to play with each other.
>>
>>About two months ago I thought Molly was going through her first heat. We had just moved and every dog in the neighborhood was coming to our house to get around her. I thought that it seemed a bit early for her first heat, but seriously the male dogs coming around was constant. So could it be that she is actually begining to start her first heat now?
>>
>>And can you reccomend some books on breeding?
>>
>>Thank you again!

>>>>>>>>>>

For breeding, you need a mentor in person. Books can never take the place of that. You won't believe the complications that happen in breeding dogs, and many of the females die. Heat cyles can be checked by veterinary testing. Other male dogs coming around is a very strong sign. But sometimes it looks like a heat and is not, and sometimes it does not look like it when it is. You need someone in person. Books and online help are not going to cut it. Your dog is on the line here, and that is no exaggeration.
-----
Kathy Diamond Davis, author, "Therapy Dogs: Training Your Dog to Reach Others," 2nd edition, and the free Canine Behavior Series articles at http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=SRC&S=1&SourceID=47

vampella Jun 25, 2006 08:13 PM

Did you see any blood? was there a need for a "diaper"? did she go off her food. was she cocking her tail off to the side when the male was mounting her?
I would say before you do breed you have a lot to learn.

Being the daughter of breeders of Great Danes, I really find fault with the fact that you want to breed mixed breed dogs when you don't seem to really know what you are doing. Even though your dog is a mixed great dane he will still have traits and health problems of the breed to pass along. he was not breed to be healthy you could be passing along seriouse health problems. Breeding isn't something that should be done by just anyone. you should first know your breed. know the backround of dogs being bred. There are test that should first be done. OFA, Thyroid,heart. it's not cheap. There are enough puppies and dogs in shelters around the world that people should leave the breeding to BREEDERS!!

Sorry to be so frank but I would prefer that people didn't breed animals when they know nothing about it!

Char
Animal Health Tech

We had just moved and every dog in the neighborhood was coming to our house to get around her. I thought that it seemed a bit early for her first heat, but seriously the male dogs coming around was constant. So could it be that she is actually begining to start her first heat now?
>>
>>And can you reccomend some books on breeding?
>>
>>Thank you again!
-----
Char
Animal Health Tech

ryleesmama Jun 28, 2006 07:29 AM

thank you again for you concern. I am not an idiot thanks. I am not trying to endanger my dogs. We don't breed people to get better people.. do we? People pass along hereditary diseases also, don't they? You wouldn't just not have a child because you may or may not pass something down to them... would you?
Not every dog has to be bred to better the breed in my opinion. Which I'm sure means nothing to you. I am not breeding for showing or for "improving" the breed as a lot of you seem to put it. I'm breeding because I have two dogs that I love dearly. And my family and I would like to continue having a part of them when they are gone. Whether you think that is right or wrong doesn't really matter to me.

And I have already had testing done on my male. The vet checked him a couple of years ago and approved of us breeding him. I am planning on having my female checked also. She has her appt soon.

No she is not bleeding. And as I understand it not all bitches do bleed when they are in heat. Her mother didn't bleed when she was. That is why I was asking for other signs.

Thank you again.

vampella Jun 28, 2006 03:50 PM

-------------------------------------------------------------
Do not be rude to me,I'm not the one that know's nothing about breeding or how to take care of a litter.

Actually all females DO bleed. just some people do not notice as some dogs clean themselves well. as I said you know nothing about breeding.

I'm sure that the reason her mothers so called breeders didn't notice was because they knew nothing about breeding.

we don't breed people to get better people? well I wouldn't want to murders/child molesters and so on to have children, would you? so in a sence we do!!

Also on that note, I would not freeze my childs sperm to have myself a grandchild...this is basiclly what you are saying your reasoning is so YOU can ...get real.

If I had a disease that would cause my children sever pain DAMN right I would NOT have children. why do you want your dogs puppies to suffer for your ignorance?

A check up is not all that is needed to breed. there should be and OFA done and it should be fair at the least. For this x-ray you should have your dog asleep to get a good picture. Thyroid test...blood work. eye's tested by a certified opthamologist. ECG, heart ultrasounds on GREAT DANES or mixes. I could go on forever on why people like you should NOT breed.

people like you "BACKYARD BREEDERS" are the reason for sick, homeless animals. you'll be lucky if you can keep those puppies alive until they are ready at 8-10 weeks to go to their new home.

All that you said in the above post say's why you should not be breeding!!!! End of story.

I feel sorry for your dogs and their puppies.

REG. ANIMAL HEALTH TECH & TODAY VOICE OF THOSE NOT YET BORN
CHAR

>>thank you again for you concern. I am not an idiot thanks. I am not trying to endanger my dogs. We don't breed people to get better people.. do we? People pass along hereditary diseases also, don't they? You wouldn't just not have a child because you may or may not pass something down to them... would you?
>>Not every dog has to be bred to better the breed in my opinion. Which I'm sure means nothing to you. I am not breeding for showing or for "improving" the breed as a lot of you seem to put it. I'm breeding because I have two dogs that I love dearly. And my family and I would like to continue having a part of them when they are gone. Whether you think that is right or wrong doesn't really matter to me.
>>
>>And I have already had testing done on my male. The vet checked him a couple of years ago and approved of us breeding him. I am planning on having my female checked also. She has her appt soon.
>>
>>No she is not bleeding. And as I understand it not all bitches do bleed when they are in heat. Her mother didn't bleed when she was. That is why I was asking for other signs.
>>
>>Thank you again.

ryleesmama Jun 29, 2006 05:34 AM

I'm sorry but I think that you started by being rude to me. I came here for advice and help. You immediately called me an idiot and have stated that I'm harming my dogs and future puppies. You don't know me, you have no right to assume that.

I did not come here to get slammed by you, and if you are going to continue to be rude to me then please don't respond to my posts.

Not everyone is looking for the "perfect dog". People have health problems just as much as dogs. I wouldn't not have children because I have arthritis or a heart murmur. (which I do have both) I still chose to have children. Just because my dogs may have the potential to have health issues is not a good enough reason to me to not breed them.

Now why do you have such a problem offering good advice instead of just telling me that I'm harming my dogs?

Rouen Jun 29, 2006 06:10 AM

"Not everyone is looking for the "perfect dog"."

I certainly didn't want a "pure bred" dog, they truely do have more health issues, now I have 2 perfect mutts.

"Now why do you have such a problem offering good advice instead of just telling me that I'm harming my dogs?"

it's pretty common knowledge that people who breed think they know all and no one else should even bother to breed, so if you even think about breeding your dogs they will try their best to verbally beat the thought of it out of you.

if you really do think your bitch is in season I'd keep the dogs away from eachother just to prevent anything from happening.

if you do breed them I'd love to see pics, nothings cuter than a little mutt pup.

vampella Jun 29, 2006 10:45 AM

I never said that everyone wanted pure bred or the perfect dog. What I said is that if you are breeding DO THE TESTING and KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING.
-----------------------------------------------------------
>>it's pretty common knowledge that people who breed think they know all and no one else should even bother to breed, so if you even think about breeding your dogs they will try their best to verbally beat the thought of it out of you.

In my case this is completely un true as I have no problem with mixes breeding or anyone that knows what they are doing. If you don't know don't do it. she doesn't even know if her dog is in season and she want to be a breeder and I use the term loosely
---------------------------------------------------------------
why take homes away from dogs that are going to die without them????? I have mutts thank you and I would have loved for their parents to be health tested. If you want a mix GO TO THE SHELTER AND SAVE A LIFE!!!!!

Anyone breeding in such away as this person wants to is plain and simple a backyard breeder and not just a novice breeder...BACKYARD. people who say she's fine in breeding when she knows nothing should call the media and tell the world puppy mills are A OK. Nothing wrong with them at all...which we all know id BS. why is she any different?

Char
Animal Health Tech

Rouen Jun 30, 2006 07:12 AM

"why take homes away from dogs that are going to die without them????? I have mutts thank you and I would have loved for their parents to be health tested. If you want a mix GO TO THE SHELTER AND SAVE A LIFE!!!!! "

both of my dogs had a high likelyhood of ending up in a shelter, infact had I not taken my female she'd probly be dead right now due to fear issues, before I got my male I went to plenty of shelters but 300-400$ is too much to pay for a dog with issues plus you have to pay to get them altered.. and I am not aware of any shelters that kill for space here, other than regular care my dogs both came to me free.

"people who say she's fine in breeding when she knows nothing should call the media and tell the world puppy mills are A OK. Nothing wrong with them at all...which we all know id BS. why is she any different?"

so one litter makes you a puppy mill? most breeders produce atleast 2 litters a year, so whats the difference?

vampella Jun 30, 2006 11:03 AM

Firstly, where do you like canada ??No shelter charges 300 -400 dollars to adopt a dog. the frres in wash DC at the humane society are Fees for cats are $55.00-$70.00 and for dogs fees are $100.00-$133.00. I'm not stupid, I'm an animal health tech I've worked out of shelters in the past. Don't try telling me it's 400 dollars to adopt a dog plus spay or neuter.
When you adopt a dog from a shelter, the minimal fee normally for a pup around 100-190. Adult dogs cheaper adoption fees is to pay for the space they were in, the food, the vet care and the spay or neuter.
Allmost all shelters have to put down animal on a daily basis and I don't mean one or 2. we're talking hundreds. There are some no kill shelters now, they are slowly coming into play.

here is what you get ain washinton: FOR A DOG WHEN ADOPTED
heartworm test

heartworm preventative

rabies vaccine

DHLPP vaccine

spaying or neutering

deworming (if needed0

Here in canada you get a city licence as well as tatto on top of all that minus heartworm meds

so one litter makes you a puppy mill? most breeders produce atleast 2 litters a year, so whats the difference?

One litter becomes 2 then 3 and so on. There is a HUGE difference. Really who say's she telling the truth about 1 litter? I wouldn't come on here say , ya I'm gonna breed this dog until she drops dead.

Breeders GOOD breeders not backyard breeders have adoption questionaires that are so in depth they would scare away 99% of bad owners. Then they have LEGAL contracts that must be signed about so many different things. Those dogs are healthy, cared for well cared for dogs that don't have any issues that you would want carried on to your puppy.
I've been to court to take a puppy back from an owner that dumped a puppy because they could no longer keep it. Do you really think someone who knows nothing about breeding is going to go to court to fight someone about a dog? are they gonna pay the THOUSANDS of dollars to do that? Probably not

great danes or even mixed danes SHOULD NOT be breed without the proper health tests. These are big beautiful dogs that have a lot of heath problem that us breeders are trying very hard to keep out of this GREAT breed. Those puppies will suffer because people choose to breed non breeding quality dogs.

Lets all agree to disagrre because well I know I'm right..Jus the kind of person I am on this subject and I wont change your mind and you wont change mine.

Char amimal health tech

ryleesmama Jun 30, 2006 11:45 AM

so one litter makes you a puppy mill? most breeders produce atleast 2 litters a year, so whats the difference?
One litter becomes 2 then 3 and so on. There is a HUGE difference. Really who say's she telling the truth about 1 litter? I wouldn't come on here say , ya I'm gonna breed this dog until she drops dead.

If I had been asked before being slammed about all of this you would know that we only planned on one litter. Molly is being spayed after her first and only litter.

Breeders GOOD breeders not backyard breeders have adoption questionaires that are so in depth they would scare away 99% of bad owners. Then they have LEGAL contracts that must be signed about so many different things. Those dogs are healthy, cared for well cared for dogs that don't have any issues that you would want carried on to your puppy. I've been to court to take a puppy back from an owner that dumped a puppy because they could no longer keep it. Do you really think someone who knows nothing about breeding is going to go to court to fight someone about a dog? are they gonna pay the THOUSANDS of dollars to do that? Probably not

Again if I had been asked or even remotely been given the benefit of the doubt here you would know a bit more about me. We have adoption papers ready to use. Again we know where 6 of the possible pups would go. These are people we highly trust, family members.
You would know how much I love my two dogs. You would know that when we got Max I actually dropped down to part time work so that someone could be home with him. You would know that he means the world to myself, my husband and my children. You would know that Molly is already loved just as much as Max. They are both members of our family, our children... just as much as our two boys.

You though never even gave me the opportunity to share any of these things with you. You just slammed me and assumed bad things about me.

Honestly how many people, so called "backyard breeders" as you put it, would take the time to come online and get answers to their questions?

Thanks for assuming the worst about me.....

great danes or even mixed danes SHOULD NOT be breed without the proper health tests. These are big beautiful dogs that have a lot of heath problem that us breeders are trying very hard to keep out of this GREAT breed. Those puppies will suffer because people choose to breed non breeding quality dogs.

Again you obviously aren't reading what I've posted. Max has been "properly tested"... I know I've said that at least once now in regards to you insinuating that I haven't done this. Or that I wouldn't for Molly.

It sounds like you are a knowledgeable person when it comes to breeding. It's too bad though that your attitude towards others is so awful.

Rouen Jul 01, 2006 08:42 AM

North East Dog Rescue Connection;
"Our adoption fee is $275 for puppies and $225 for adults. Our adoption fee includes spay/neuter (when possible)"

Good Dog Rescue ;
"The process to adopt a Good Dog includes:
- completion of an application
- phone interview
- veterinary reference & personal references
- home visit
- adoption fee of $375
- adoption contract. "

we bred our cocker bitch once.. I didn't know it was addicting so even though we only saw played with and trained 5 male puppies she really had 3 litters and all together 15 puppies? wonder what happened to them all..

we did go to court over a puppy, and won the case, the other puppies are still with their original BUYERS (breeders do not adopt puppies out they sell them, common mistake) infact one woman has her dog tattoo'd on her back, we also had questionaires and a contract, the boys are 10 yrs old now.

vampella Jul 01, 2006 09:09 AM

"we bred our cocker bitch once.. I didn't know it was addicting "

Obviously you are getting silly about this. yes money is addictive to BACKYARD BREEDERS. Thats why they keep breeding. Not to better the breed but to sell them for the cash.

(breeders do not adopt puppies out they sell them, common mistake)

Remembering I'm from a breeding family, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't mistake that one. That is complete bull crap, a damn good breeder such as my parents ADOPTS dogs out. The whole litter every 5- 6 years. they have a huge waiting list. They have an adoption fee. They stay in contact with the owner, fly to their side to help them through anything they need. aftercare is huge when getting a cropped dane. to sell a dog mean that it's done and out of your life when it's gone from your home. My parents only breed their best bitches with the best quality dogs in the world. they would never do anything to hurt those puppies in the long run by breeding non breeding dogs.
I wouldn't have bothered arguing my point if I'd know you too were a backyard breeder. My bad.

Char
Animal Health Tech

vampella Jun 29, 2006 10:35 AM

FIRSTLY I never called you an idiot. I called you a backyard breeder. I think you are making a huge mistake. Thats my opinion.
you strive to be a backyard breeder when you know NOTHING about breeding.

If I in my first post made you feel like an idiot, I appologise. I would love for you to completly re think what your doing and if you want to breed these 2 dogs, do the testing. you can keep your puppies safe and healthy. Thats all I ask.

I do appoligise for making you feel like that as I don't want you to feel like that. What I do want is people to go to the shelter and get animals if they aren't going to get purebred health certified dogs.

Why take away the homes of those who will die without them. Why breed a possibaly (down the road) sick dog? why bring more dogs into the world that are mutts(which I love and HAVE) with no health testing?I don't know what problems my dogs parents have but they could have been prevented with testing and if there were problems not breeding. You being a mother knows how hard it is to have children, the pain...try haveing 8-12 in there? It aint pretty. do you have the money for a c-section if something goes wrong? your looking at in canada 1500.00-2000.00 plus any care they will need after. Are you going to whelp these dogs it's not easy, how are you with blood and "STUFF"? if a puppy get stuck do you know how to handle it without hurtting the pup?

All I ask is that you re think this.

Char
Animal Health Tech

------------------------------------------------------------- "You immediately called me an idiot"

ryleesmama Jun 29, 2006 11:04 AM

Char...
I never said that I wanted to breed my two dogs right now. I'm aware that I need to wait until Molly is at the very least 18months old, and even then should wait until she is 2yrs. I had planned on having Molly tested prior to breeding them. I never said otherwise. Max has been tested, including hip xrayed.
I've assisted in the birthing of puppies, it was a long time ago I will admit. The breeder who we got Molly from has already agreed to help me when it came to that time. (she is a friend of mine) I'm aware of what can happen during whelping. I'm aware of the costs of a c-section.
I'm on here well over a year ahead of when I want to breed asking questions. What is wrong with that? Don't you encourage people to get as much information as they can?

I just have not had a female dog before. I had read a ton about heat cycles ect, but was still unsure. That is why I came on here, I had more chances of meeting someone who could help than where I live.

And yes I have made sure that they are not alone together. No bleeding and she's not moving her tail to one side so I'm thinking she isn't in heat yet. Remember again this is her first heat that I am trying to watch for. I'm sure once I've gone through one heat with her I'll understand more what to look for. ie: her moods, bleeding, appetite loss...

sarasmushu Jun 29, 2006 07:56 PM

Ok as I don't Breed I prefer to Rescue. I have a Question. Isn't it kinda unsafe to Breed these 2 Dogs as the Male is More than likely Rather Lagre being Mixed with a dane? Wouldn't this almost entitle a C-section? If I was a Breeder I would Diffantlly Be Reconsidering my first thought on Breeding.

Have you Been to the Shelter lately and Seen how many homeless dogs there are? so many of them being mixed breeds Because people didn't care that they had 2 unfixed dogs in the house.

If you do decide to Breed when the time comes I will pray for the safety of your dog and pups.

Sara

Rouen Jul 01, 2006 08:44 AM

depends on how big the bitch matures to, there are some huge labs in the world.

vampella Jul 01, 2006 09:30 AM

Here is a very small not in depth write up on BYB's ENJOY.

The Backyard Breeder

A very general definition of a backyard breeder is anyone who breeds dog for a reason other than to improve the breed. These reasons range from wanting to recoup money spent on the purchase of a pet, to believing a bitch needs to be bred once before spaying, to thinking the children need to witness birth, to feeling that they have the best dog ever and all their neighbors and relatives want one just like it.

These are all the wrong reasons for breeding a litter of puppies. If genetics were that simple, we would all have the perfect dog. Chances are far greater that none of the puppies will be like one of the parents. Recent veterinary studies have shown that a bitch’s life will be extended on the average by one full year IF she is spayed before her first heat. Witnessing the birth of puppies is not all it is cut out to be either. It is possible that a puppy will be stillborn or even worse, alive but badly deformed. The miracle of life is only half the story. If your kids are ready for it, take them to a farm and let them see the full cycle, life and death. Finally, breeding a litter of puppies yields very little profit for a very lot of work. The more responsible you are, the less profit to be made. Which brings us back to exactly what this type of breeder tends to be ..... irresponsible.

While there are some people ignorant enough to be breeding puppies because they think their kids need to see this, or because they think everyone in the world needs a dog just like Fluffy, by far the vast majority of backyard breeders are motivated by money. Whatever the reason, these are not people who have any intention of being responsible for their actions.

Fluffy may be wonderful, but not wonderful enough for them to spend the money to prove just how wonderful she is. There will be no dog shows for Fluffy and she will not be tested for genetic disorders prior to breeding. No research into Fluffy’s background will be performed to ensure that an appropriate mate is found. Chances are, Fluffy came from a pet shop, an animal shelter, or was sold as a pet only (not for breeding purposes) by a reputable breeder (for a reason). So, irresponsible action number one is that this backyard breeder is going to breed Fluffy.

Next, here come the puppies. Fluffy is very fertile and there are a bunch of them. If Fluffy was AKC registered, and Fluffy’s mate, the stud down the street is also AKC Registered, then the money-motivated breeder will certainly send that litter registration form and some money to the AKC right away. Because, AKC Registered puppies are more valuable than non-registered ones. For some reason novices seem to think that AKC Registration is synonymous with quality. Yes, it does mean the dog is purebred, but no, it does not mean the dog is of good type and will be representative of the breed. The AKC is merely a registry, they get paid money to keep a database for all registered purebred dogs. The AKC does not personally certify the quality of any dog it registers. It does not send someone out to verify that every dog registered conforms to the type for its breed. The dog could have 3 legs and 4 eyes and the AKC will never know!

This breeder will not generally opt to spend any more money than is absolutely necessary to raise these puppies to selling age. Because this type of breeder is either motivated by money or simply ignorant, it is quite likely that little extra expenses such as dewclaw removal (dewclaw ... what’s that???) or vaccinations and worming will be foregone. Since these people will often find out that none of their friends or neighbors really wanted a replica of Fluffy after all, and because these people do not have contacts in the dog world, a newspaper ad will be the next absolutely required expense. Sometimes these breeders find they are getting tired of their responsibility and are ready to get rid of the puppies as soon as mom gets tired of cleaning up after them. Puppies for sale, 5 weeks old, ready to go, the ad might say. No puppy should leave before seven weeks and some breeds should remain with the breeder much longer.

Finally, the last puppy is sold. It’s over and life can get back to normal, right? For a responsible breeder it is never over. But backyard breeders end their responsibility at the point of sale. Let the buyer beware, if your puppy has a problem three years later are you confident you can call this person back and discuss the problem. Did this breeder tell you they wanted to know if the puppy they bred ever turns up a genetic defect? If they are a backyard breeder, they did not. The only type of breeder that would be interested in that type of information is someone looking to improve the breed.

Like I said this is small, there is SO much more but I'm so done with this discussion as it is a useless cause if people are going to tell this person she is ok in what she is planning.

vampella Jul 01, 2006 09:37 AM

Hi Sara,

That could be an issue but we had to c-section our last litter it's something that can happen no matter the size difference. It's likely though. Our last litter we had pups 2lbs . It could be a problem for this bitch.

>>Have you Been to the Shelter lately and Seen how many homeless dogs there are? so many of them being mixed breeds Because people didn't care that they had 2 unfixed dogs in the house.

your so right there are a heck of a lot of dogs that need homes alreay or they will be put down!!!

Also because people breed without knowing what they are doing. I say leave the breeding to people who know how to better their breed and keep the health issues to a min.

>>If you do decide to Breed when the time comes I will pray for the safety of your dog and pups.
Sara
AMEN to that

Char
-----
Char
Animal Health Tech

Trafalgar Jul 08, 2006 07:48 PM

Hi
Unfortunately you came to the wrong place for advice.
Usually his is a place where people LECTURE other people more than HELPING them.

That's because most of these people are dog lovers versus people lovers.

Why don't you start by reading Leon Whitney's book:
How to Breed Dogs

It's old, but actually useful in that it presents simple charts showing the days of a heat- and gestation periods etc.....Then move on to more modern writers like Wendall Belfield. Do searches on the internet and check out articles, etc...

Many many books show gestation charts and will tell you about the length of the estrus (heat cycle). Go to the book store and flip through them all. Also, ask your vet:
1- How to accurately determine the 1st day of the heat
2- Which day he'd recommend trying the first mating.
(probably the 12th or 13th depending on if the bitch is ready to accept the male.) Most people say the 10th day, but that's because they're assuming you didn't really identify the first day....

As a GENERAL rule a dogs vulva will swell - and show red (amount of bleeding does vary) when the red color turns clearish tan (it goes, over the course of a few days from red to pink to tan) it's a sign that she's about ready to ovulate.

If you can accurately judge the day she starts bleeding - it will be approx 11-12 days after when she'll ovulate and be ready to mate. When her swollen vulva looks like it's deflating (from hardened swolleness to loose puffiness) - that is another sign she's ready. Finally females will usually be willing to breed when they're ready. She should be bred 2x. Say the 11th and the 13th day. Or the 10th and the 13th...etc...

These puppies will be 3/4 lab and 1/4 Dane?
Should be pretty and cute.

I would ask the vet to be on call (gestation is 63 days after conception) because in the event one or more of the puppies is HUGE and can't pass through birth canal, you might need veterinarian assistance for the birth.

Obviously, the highest quality diet is important (high protein, high fat, low low grain). If you don't feed raw or home cooked, Id recommend a product called Innova Evo.
Also, vitamin E supplements are particularly important to prevent uterine exhaustion.

check out the attached website with practical info.

Good Luck. Sorry about all the hassles you've received.

P.S. That probably was her first heat when you noticed all the neighborhood dogs. Very often first heats are sort of unusual.

Whelping and Breeding Dog tips...

ryleesmama Jul 09, 2006 04:47 AM

thank you so much for some actual advice. I greatly appreciate that. I'll pick up that book today at the bookstore!

Image
Image

Site Tools