Reptile & Amphibian Forums

attached is a link to web site (not mine) with an alternative point of view.

It concerns a topic that almost NO ONE has the courage to address.

I for one believe that this alternative point of view will be making a come back among the enlightened (those people who believe in reaching conclusions after compiling and analysing empirical evidence in a rational way).

While I don't subscribe to everything on this site...I find it SHOCKING that 99.99% of people would grab and sterilize every dog and cat they could get their hands on, REGARDLESS of what is best for each individual animal and/or owner. The way these 99.99% rationalize this GROSS DESIRE TO CONTROL is to assert that they KNOW (with God-like certainty) that every single animal is better off sterilized (EXCEPT THE ONES THEY THEMSELVES WANT TO BREED)....hee hee

There must be SOME people who that believe alternative opinions, even if they're opposed to the ideas, NEED to be prevalent to prevent TOTALITARIANISM & FASCISM

Link

I personally believe that spaying and neutering does affect the long term health of many (all?) animals, and it's a shame that the irresponsible ones cause so many unwanted dogs to be discarded.

I believe that spayed females should have a phytoestrogen in their diet (I prefer ground flaxseed, but not all do well with the flax), and I've yet to find a phytotestosterone for the males...there is an oat extract that might work, but I haven't yet tried it.

Very interesting site. I don't like the idea of anesthetizing perfectly healthy animals and removing organs for the sake of convenience or any other stupid reasons, but there are some really good reasons for spaying and neutering. Growing up my neighbors' rottweiler bred every single time she came in season. She had at least four litters of ten or more puppies. They were given away, then she was left to just breed again, and after the original male was hit by a car she bred to her sons and grandsons. In her case, she should have been spayed to protect her from all the health problems that go with breeding constantly- I saw her last week and she is horribly obese, she can't walk well, and her people have never taken a pet to the veterinarian, so she's probably got a number of problems that I couldn't even see. A better solution would be to ban people like this from keeping animals. Your link even said it takes a more responsible person to keep an intact animal and not breed him/her than to keep an altered one. So many people don't even keep altered animals responsibly it would be ridiculous to ask that those irresponsible people not sterilize the already unfortunate animals in their care. I have two spayed female dogs, and I'm glad that at least one of them is spayed. My old girl Lucy was bred once and now she has a fat tumor on her belly. She belonged to my parents, who are among those irresponsible people who care about their money and their possessions more than they care about their dog. Can you imagine a person who keeps an immaculate house having an unaltered male spraying everywhere, or a female bleeding all over the carpet twice a year? If sterilization wasn't an option, those dogs and cats would go to a shelter and be euthanized.
For those people like me and like a lot of the people on these message boards, spaying our females is a way to keep them from getting mammary tumors. Once a female has her first heat cycle she is at greater risk of getting them. Unspayed females can get uterine infections, which are a lot more dangerous than a spay surgery, and they end up getting spayed anyway. Unneutered males jump fences to get to females, putting them at the mercy of everything and everyone around them, and unneutered males who smell a female and can't get to her go bananas the whole time the female is in heat.
A while ago my husband and I had a male pharaoh hound puppy. I was really having a hard time deciding when- or if- neutering would be best. We probably wouldn't have neutered him, at least for a while. But we're a dog's dream home. What about people whose dogs run loose? Stay outdoors all the time in a yard or on a chain? Go outside unsupervised? It is without a doubt irresponsible for people who don't take the absolute best care of their animals to breed. Spay and neuter those. The risks of anesthesia and surgery and screwy hormones are worth it to save a female from being bred to death or a male from jumping the fence and being hit by a car. All idiots should be required to spay their animals. The rest of us... we ought to have the choice. But we humans are the ones who bred the survival instincts out of our dogs and cats, we're the ones who over-bred them, it's our fault there are so many being euthanized in shelters, and spaying and neutering is our way to correct that. It's stupid and barbaric, yes, but so is castrating bulls and pigs without anesthesia, so is hanging a cow by its legs and slashing its throat, so is starving hens to make them lay more eggs, but people do that too and at least when we alter our pets we have good intentions. There's my rant for today.
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Kadee Sedtal
home of old lady Lucy (boxer/lab/garbage disposal), and the lovely new addition, Fancy the Wonder Beagle!

Hi.
It IS sad that there are so many irresponsible people in this world - but you know what? There are also, SO many people around who LOVE their pets and simply go along with whatever is the style at the current time.

Hence:
Cages (that everyone calls "crates"

Leashes that drag a dog around by the face

Not allowing growing dogs to exercise a lot for fear of orthopedic problems

Feeding raw food

Fat folks keeping their dogs rail thin ("because it's better for them"

Paying $2,000.00 bucks (or more) for a bulldog that's been delivered cesarian - because it's considered ok to breed dogs that can't even be born without radical intervention...

The list is endless. Some of these things might be good. But don't you think people should stop and think about what they do with their pets and not assume that whatever is the fad of the moment is the best choice?

I think the point of the link I attached is this:

People who are ALREADY enlightened to a certain degree - might find alternative ideas interesting in their unending cylcle of LEARNING about their dogs.

As far as the knuckle-heads that let their dog breed litter after litter of unwanted pups while they roast in the sun on a chain - those types aren't ready to evolve yet - BUT - many people are.

Attached is another link - one which discusses easy alternatives to castration and regular spaying . These alternatives ARE being done currently and may be more common in the future -

(Vasectomy - Tubal Iigation - Hysterectomy without removing the ovaries.)

Check it out.

Thanks for your response, by the way!
Link

I'm in agreement with the poster below that has little faith in human race's ability to be responsible with an unaltered dog. Heck I'll broaden that view to include any unaltered animal for that matter be it rabbit, iguana, hamster, or mouse. I mean, for me, the unintentional mouse breedings from a neighbor give me free snake food, but really, is that fair to the poor mouse's quality of life? Just becaues they can breed doesn't mean they should breed. Sadly, our society seems to think that is the case.

Also, I'd like to say that although the unaltered male I live with has been wonderful, I do have to take extra measures about not allowing him to escape that are inconvenient to me and my family. I don't see to many people willing to double baracade their homes and dig their fences into the ground 2' just for a dog. I've also noticed that an unaltered male around other male dogs creates problems. They do sometimes have something to prove to each other in spite of their normal easy going temperament. Granted, I have a "hot" breed that is not typically very fond of same gender dogs. Get a few of those testosterone laiden guys in a stay line up and it can get tough. I don't enjoy playing referee in the Novice ring.

Responsible dog ownership is lacking in this world. If altering the dog makes the quality of life in the family even 1% easier, then it's worth it. The chances of that dog staying with it's family forever and having a quality life have increased.
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Chelle and the rest of the crew including, but not limited to Kita and Taiko (the shiba inu wrestle maniacs), Adi (reserved and dignified tabby cat), and all 28 reptiles

As usual, you can always be counted on for a nice, thoughtful response.

Here are some comments on some of your points.

When you say that our current society seems to think that aminals should breed just because they can - I think you're wrong. I feel the vast majority of people in our society feel all animals should only breed when it serves the purpose of man.

When you say that you have little faith in the human race's ability to be responsible with an unaltered dog ( or any animal) I might agree with your assessment (I don't, but I might) but I CERTAINLY disagree with the idea of force neutering as the solution. Why take out your lack of faith on the animal? Castration and hysterectomy have consequences and wouldn't you agree that they should only be performed if they're in the best interest of the animal?

As far as your male being testy around other dogs - I have 2 thoughts - NEITHER - mean to be critical.

1- Many people OVER REACT to dogs being testy with each other. And many people, due to their lack of courage, can't step up to the plate and physically make it plain to the dogs that it won't be tolerated. I understand & sympathize with this problem. This leads me to my second point about male on male testiness:

2- Some breeds, as an average, are VERY low on the dog to dog agression index. I believe people who are CONCERNED about their males being spunky with other males ought to think very long and hard BEFORE getting a breed that isn't one of these low aggressive dogs. The dog shouldn't pay the price of castration because a dog breed is ill matched to an owner.

As far as your point about all the possible negative effects of neutering for a dog are worth it if it makes the quality of life in a family 1% better - I believe that to be an exaggeration on your part and you're only trying to make the point that allowing the dog to pay the price of de-sexing will often result in said dog - being allowed to remain in a family who would otherwise discard it for convenience sake.

Poor dog, to be part of such a miserable crew!

Finally, here is a another interesting link.

Link