Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi there. I had previously posted this message under "poodles" then someone was kind enough to suggest that I post the message here as well. Here is my story...

Hello, I am new to this forum, as well as being a first time dog owner of a toy poodle, male, 3.5 months old, whose name is Primo. Two weeks ago I took Primo in for his second round of vaccinations, also did the canine cough vaccine. Well that was the start of our problems, Primo had some sort of allergic reaction which included being completely out of it (sleeping all the time, no energy, eating little, and not drinking any water). He also had a swelling of his leg, and then additional swelling around his jaw (actually where the jaw meets on the left hand side, same side as his swollen leg, which resulted in Primo howling in pain on more than several occasions). After several different types of meds, 5 visits to the vet in a week, a head x-ray (which showed nothing wrong), several shots of steroidal antiinflammatory, and lots of $$$ spent,ten days later final found Primo back to normal. I had received pain meds and a non steriodal antiinflammatory med to give him which I did for a few days and stopped as he was back to his normal self. That lasted for about 3 days, then last Friday his jaw started hurting him again, he had some slight swelling...the vet advised me to start the Metacam again which I did for 3 days - nothing changed, all Primo did was sleep, eat, and sleep for about 3 days. I finally told the vet we needed something stronger - and he put him on prednisone...two days later and Primo seems to be on the mend and just about back to his regular self. I am supposed to continue the prednisone and then see what happens from there. Needless to say this has been a most difficult time for Primo, and one that has left me stressed out and depressed. I was hoping that getting a puppy would be a positive and joyful experience, so far it has only been an expensive, stressful and depressing undertaking. I am feeling awful and wondering if getting this puppy (from a breeder by the way) was the right move. I am not working presently but hopefully will start soon - I cannot imagine what I would have done if I was working and having to deal with this nightmare. I still need to deal with the separation anxiety as well - Primo won't even stay in a room if I leave it for more than a few minutes. Any guidance or insight anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much.
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>>P.S. For barking - a great deterent is filling a soda can with pennies and shaking it loudly when the puppy/dog barks, and saying "no bark". It stops a barking puppy in his tracks.

I am so very sorry that you and your pup are going through this. My dog suffered damage by vaccine reaction by the time that she was 6 months old. I wasn't able to find the right kind of help, and it was aggravated by more vaccines when she was older. I am lucky that it didn't kill her. She is 9 years old now, healthier than many of the dogs around that have received conventional care, but still requires alot of work to keep her this way.

I would stop the pred. Conventional vets do not understand how to treat this type of disease process because they do not have the right tools. In my experience, the only way to treat vaccine reactions of this nature is through homeopathy, and using a vet that knows classical homeopathy. Your pup is about to teach you alot of things that you probably didn't know existed, or perhaps didn't believe in, if you let him.

Unfortunately the reaction to the vaccine(s) isn't an allergic reaction. The vaccine has affected his immune system and many other things in his body.

So, a couple of specific suggestions:

1) see if there is a good holistic vet in your area. The link to a directory is here:

http://www.holisticvetlist.com/

Dr. Tobin may also have specific recommendations for your area (see other forum to post to him). If possible, one that knows both acupuncture and classical homeopathy is a preference.

2) if there isan't a vet that practices homeopathy near you, there are ones that do telephone consults. I've known a couple of folks on the boards that have done this with vaccine-reaction dogs and they saw remarkable improvement.

3) You want to support your dog the best you can. If you are feeding kibble, find one that has no corn, no sorghum, no by-products as a minimum. I ended up having to homecook for my dog.

There are supplements that are natural antiinflammatories -- cetryl myristoleate is one and literally was a lifesaver for my dog, but the pill is rather large -- I'm not sure that it would work for a puppy of a toy breed. This is the product

http://www.vitacost.com/JarrowFormulasTrueCMO

I wonder if you could purchase smaller capsules from the health food store and divide the larger ones up? For my dog, this was a very powerful tool in getting her better.

Catherine O'Driscoll has two books that discuss the dangers of vaccination -- "What Vets Don't Tell You About Vaccines" which is unfortunately out of print, and her recent book (available at www.dogwise.com), SHOCK TO THE SYSTEM - THE FACTS ABOUT ANIMAL VACCINATION, PET FOOD AND HOW TO KEEP YOUR PETS HEALTHY -- you might be interested in reading it.

It will be important to never vaccinate your pup again, and get a letter of exemption for rabies on medical grounds.

The first step is finding the right kind of vet.

I don't check this site that often, so if I forget to check back and if you want to contact me, please click on my name and send an email. You might also want to copy your post to the "ask the holistic vet" board. Dr. Tobin practices homeopathy and is very familiar with the damage that vaccines can do.

Some articles:

http://whale.to/vaccine/driscoll1.html

http://www.bogartsdaddy.com/bouvier/health/vaccination-concerns-uk.htm

Again, I'm so sorry that this happened to your pup.

Lisa

I too am so very sorry this is happening to Primo & you...

I also have/had a severely vaccine damaged puppy. Symptoms were different than Primo's but the problem was still due to the vaccine's.....

A Homeopath is the way I had to go to correct & repair the damage ( as much as possible ) that was done by the vaccine's....

Best of luck to you & Primo

He doesn't need the vaccines. He doesn't even need any more than two rabies vaccines- one when he's a year old and one a year later. It's not like they go door to door checking to make sure everyone's dogs are up to date. Just skip them. It sounds like poor little Primo is paying the price for your vet choosing to not further his knowledge on the subject. Try a holistic vet. Most of them are genuinely interested in the health of their patients. While that is a goal for many traditional vets as well, they are taught in vet school to push all the drugs, all the vaccines, all the flea and heartworm preventives, that they can. Then they go straight into practice with no contrary information. Holistic vets get that extra information. All the nutrition information you get from most traditional vets was taught to them by the company that makes whatever product is on their shelves. They get their training on vaccinations from vaccine companies, and so on. It's the same with human medicine, too. Do your research, know your options, and go in armed to the teeth with everything you might need to know. Sorry to say, but sometimes you just can't trust people, even your dog's vet. I hope Primo's ailments go away quickly and you can start to enjoy being with him instead of constantly having to fix things.

Kadee Sedtal
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Kadee Sedtal
home of old lady Lucy (boxer/lab/garbage disposal), pretty girl Fancy (beagle), the rats- Chopin, Tchaikovsky, Pachebel, Fillmore, and Norbert, and the mice- Vivaldi, Brahms, Schubert, Bartok, Rasputin, Chaminade, Rosa, Dorothy, Glenda, and Em... I really ought to stop getting more rodents every time I go out, huh?