Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello ,
I have a wonderful border collie and would like to switch back to a raw diet . As a puppy I fed her a prepackaged raw diet from mountain dog food company . She did very well on it but because at the time I was traveling with her quite a bit I switched to a holistic kibble as it was just easier that way . I have tried a few different kibbles (Innova , GO! Natural and First Mate ) and I had my issues with each . Overall she just seemed so much healthier on raw , shiny soft coat , freash breath , clean pearly white teeth and bright clear eyes . I would really like to switch back to raw but this time I would like to make my own . I have done lots of research but would love to hear from some people who make their own dog food . Where do you buy your meat ? What vegetables do you use ? What supplements do you add ? Any tips or advice would be greatly appriecated . Thank you in advance .

Feeding can get confusing eh! I have a BC gal and a Chesapeake Bay Retriever. I don't feed raw but I do cook for them. Basically what I do is get chicken livers, whole wheat pasta, garlic cloves, and veggies, either brocolli, asparagass or frozen and put all in a big pot bring to just a boil then let sit over night. When feeding I put a tablespoon of yogurt and canned salmon with all of this. Usually lasts about 5 days for 2 dogs. I do also give dried chicken breasts as treats.

Also, if you do a google search for raw canine diets, it should give you a more clear idea of what to feed. Good luck!

>>Hello ,
>>I have a wonderful border collie and would like to switch back to a raw diet . As a puppy I fed her a prepackaged raw diet from mountain dog food company . She did very well on it but because at the time I was traveling with her quite a bit I switched to a holistic kibble as it was just easier that way . I have tried a few different kibbles (Innova , GO! Natural and First Mate ) and I had my issues with each . Overall she just seemed so much healthier on raw , shiny soft coat , freash breath , clean pearly white teeth and bright clear eyes . I would really like to switch back to raw but this time I would like to make my own . I have done lots of research but would love to hear from some people who make their own dog food . Where do you buy your meat ? What vegetables do you use ? What supplements do you add ? Any tips or advice would be greatly appriecated . Thank you in advance .
-----
Charlene

My Email

Adopt the pace of Nature
Her secret is patience

-Ralph Waldo Emerson-

I just found a post from another board that may help. I havent read through it yet so no idea if I agree with everything or not. I also take absolutely no credit for writing this, however, it was posted by a friend of mine so that more people can be educated so it is fine for me to pass it on here.

REASONS TO CHOOSE RAW DIETS
· Many people find when they switch to an all-natural diet, the allergies their dogs had disappeared.
· Not only is feeding raw cheaper to feed than commercial dog foods, but there are enormous savings to be made by not having all those vet visits to fix your dogs' allergies.
· No doggy odor
· Vet bills that decline or disappear
· Naturally cleans teeth. No need for toothbrushes, de-scaling jobs or gum disease
· The time it takes a dog to chew a raw meaty bone, it give their stomach adequate time to get the acids moving
· Much less stools produced, are smaller, firmer and turn chalky after a couple of days
· Decreased or non-existent vet bills, due to your dogs being healthier
· Less cost for dog food, as commercial dog food get very expensive
· Mirrors what a dog would be getting in the wild.
· Puppies develop at a more appropriate rate, and quick growth spurts are avoided. A good breeder will want to stop fast growth in any pup
· The ripping and chewing involved in eating raw meaty bones develops the jaw, neck and shoulder muscles of the dog. Commercial dog foods will never assist in this important muscle development
· Less water drinking
· By ripping, tearing and crunching their way through rough, chewy carcasses (or large pieces of raw meaty bones) carnivores wash, scrub and polish their teeth and gums.

STARTING OFF
· Better to switch cold-turkey
· Purchase a deep freezer
· A good start is chicken necks or backs for the first week, keeping meals small to begin with and don't let your dog overdo it. Once the dog has settled into this, add a bit of lean mince (ground meat).

ONE WEEK AFTER STARTING
· You can start adding richer food like eggs and liver (and maybe leaving a little bit more fat on the chicken/turkey) after a week or two once your dog is used to the simple diet.
· Allow a week or so to introduce each new meat source

SUGGESTED FOODS
MISCELLANEOUS
· Plain yogurt
· Raw eggs in shell
MEATS
· Chicken necks, backs, hind quarters, legs (basically all, but the wings don?t have much meat and a lot of skin, so not too useful)
· Turkey necks or backs
· Hens
· Lamb Necks
· Lean mince (ground meat)
· Ground turkey
· Fish (see General Tips)
o Sardines
o Mackerel
· Goat
· Pig
· Rabbit
· Lamb
· Beef (ground or diced chunks)
· Venison
· Duck
OFFAL
· Liver
· Heart
· Tongue
· Lungs
· Pancreas
· Spleen
· Intestines
· Gizzards
· Kidneys
· Tripe
TREATS
· Soup bones (aka marrow bones)
· Rib bones
· Treat recipe:
o 1 lb of chicken or beef livers
o 2 cups of whole wheat flour
o Garlic powder (NOT salt!)
o Blend livers in blender until frothy. Pour into bowl. Mix in wheat flour and garlic powder. Spray 9x12 pan with oil spray. Pour mixture into pan. Bake at 325 for 25 minutes.

GENERAL TIPS
· Fish: Serving with head is fine. It is suggested to freeze or cook fish to rid it of bacteria
· As for pups and bones - it's fine. You need to use a bit of common sense about what they can consume, of course. But an 8 week old pup will manage chicken necks without issue. You can always cut them in half if you think it's needed. Or flatten them if you really want to. Larger items are also fine, you just have to figure that the pup won't be able to consume the bone. So intersperce meals like turkey leg with boney meals like chicken necks
· The cost to get a whole chicken is typically only 50 cents more than getting two boneless chicken breasts. This means that you can eat the breasts and he can eat the whole chicken, which could make up two meals.
· Dogs have no use for carbohydrates
· Switching the diet of fussy dogs may take a bit of ingenuity using a combination of methods. It's not unkind to let hunger be your principal tool. Fat dogs can be fasted for lengthy periods of time without ill effects even several weeks. Lean dogs can go without food for long periods too. But two to three days of no rations works just fine. If the chicken frames are not eaten after an hour, simply return them to the refrigerator until the next day. By the third day, your hungry hound will be following your every move and will be a willing participant in the experiment.
· Necks are handy because they're so incredibly easy for the dog to eat. One crunch (often not even that) and they're swallowed. They can thus be a good part for young puppies (for whom they're relatively large) or for tempting reluctant eaters. On the other hand, they're not good for gulpers. If your dog is inclined to inhale his food, then they're a choking hazard.
· Backs are altogether a great deal more work - for the dog. It is impossible to swallow those whole, so the dog spends a fair amount of time chewing. That's great for his teeth (and for recreation - he's most unlikely to go chew your shoe afterward ), and for overenthusiastic eaters/gulpers. But a reluctant eater may decide it's too much effort and give up half way.
· Amount to give:
o 2-months: 10% of current body weight
o 3-months: 8% of current body weight
o 4-months: 6-7% of current body weight
o 5-month and older: 2-3% of current body weight
o Note that it's never less actual food - because the pup is increasing in weight. It's a good starting point - you can adjust a little bit to suit the individual as you discover how well that amount suits.
o Proportions of flesh/bone/offal: A decent average is a diet that's made of a good 75% meat, about 10 offal (all types) and 15% meaty bones.
· Preferably the food should be as organic and natural as possible.
· Dogs will eat their food frozen
· If you live in the country or travel on country roads then you may have access to road kill. Providing local laws permit, carry an old cooler-box or plastic sheet to take advantage of the fresh carcasses you find along the way.
· Some people are worried about their dog choking on bones. While such incidents are very rare, far more incidents occur with dogs choking on kibble. It is suggested to feed bigger portions of meaty bones, or if available, whole carcasses, such as whole chickens or rabbits.
· If a dog is scarfing down their food, you may start by feeding them by hand, in an isolated environment, until they learn how to chew. Chewing is critical for a dog. And literally some dogs need to figure it out as adults how to do it. For example, you may hold one end of the chicken carcass and not let them swallow it until they have chewed it a bit.
· Talk to your local butcher, abattoir or chicken processor. Many of the leftovers that these guys consider waste, us raw feeders people consider fantastic for our dogs. Things like chicken carcasses, chicken necks, chicken feet, and chicken heads are considered rubbish, and are sold for next to nothing. You should be able to get these fairly easily.
· Look in your phone book for poultry suppliers
· It is bone that makes stool hard, so if a meal has a lesser amount of bone in it than usual, then the result is a softer stool than usual too.
· If you feel there could be a problem with the pork where you live you can always freeze it for a couple of days. (However, through my research, I have decided against pork, as I have found that it is a 50/50 risk with pork)
· 15 lbs of beef chunks should run around 72cents/lb
o Green trip: 1.30/lb.
o Chicken backs/Chicken necks .59cents a lb.

DO NOT?S
· Dogs do not have the digestive system to cope with grains. Grains are one of the biggest sources of allergies in dogs.
· DON'T feed COOKED chicken bones, or any COOKED bones for that matter
· (Found on one site. I suggest to research this more, to determine your own opinion on supplements) Don't fall into the trap of feeding supplements "just in case". If you feed your dog/cat a variety of raw meaty bones/carcasses, then you're dog has the best platform upon which to base their health.
· Just remember do not feed kibble. Kibble and meat digest differently, therefore the kibble can hinder the digestion process needed to breakdown the bacteria from raw foods
· Do not feed onions, grapes, raisins, and avocado. Not toxic, but best to avoid tomatoes, potatoes, broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage

As for your questions...

Well, you can get it from some pet stores but you will pay a fortune for it. Call around, most butchers have off cuts that they wouldnt normally sell that you can pick up for a few dollars. My local butcher sells me a 2 kg bag of bones for $1. Poultry farms can be a good place to get hold of carcusses and other bits that humans dont like. I get pretty much all my meat from a pet supply place near a greyhound track. Muscle meat is the cheapest there (per kilo it is 60c for chicken, $1 for chicken/beef mix, $1.20 for beef) 10kg ($6 for chicken) would last me about me 2 weeks (2 dogs and a cat). He also sells really cheap chicken and duck carcusses; chicken, duck and turkey necks; lamb flaps; off cuts etc. Organs are the most expensive part as I get it from the supermarket. I think they are about $3 a kilo there. I also buy canned tuna, mackeral, sardines and salmon from the supermarket.

Basically it costs me about $10 a week to feed both dogs and the cat. The only commercial food available in Australia that I would consider is eukanuba and that would cost me about $50 a week. Keep in mind these prices are australian dollars.

Each day they should get 2-3% of their body weight. A rough guide is to feed
10% organs
15% bones
75% meat

I also feed raw egg a few times a week (plus the shell crushed, its great for calcium) and 50-100g plain yoghurt once a week (although I waited till Delta was 6mnths before she got any with lactose in it). So long as you are also feeding fish weekly you shouldnt need to supplement their diet in any way. They get plenty of omega-3 (eggs and fish) and calcium (eggs and yoghurt) as well as all the good bacteria that yoghurt provides. Off the top of my head I cant think of the names of all the vitamins and minerals needed but I know that they are provided by this diet

Judge the diet based on how they look and what their poo looks like:
- If they are putting on weight, feed less; if they are getting skinny feed more
- If their poo is black they need more bones, if it is white they need less bones.

Dogs DO NOT need vegetables. Their bodies cannot digest them, so they simply pass straight through them onto your grass. I feed the occassional bit of carrot etc as a treat but that is all it is- a treat.

Try not to cook anything either... cooking destroys many of the valuable nutrients found in the food.

These are good sites to read through...

http://www.rawfed.com/myths/
http://www.rawfoodlife.com/raw_pets.htm
http://www.rawfeddogs.net/
http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html
http://www.kaossiberians.com/rawfeeding.htm

I researched the diet for a few months before switching Cody. I spoke to canine nutritionists and people experienced with the Prey Model Diet. Together we worked out rough weekly feeding plans to get me started until I got the hang of things. I have been feeding raw for about a year now and everything comes natural to me now.

This is a rough weekly plan for me. They usually get some chicken necks or wings each morning aswell as the bones keep their poo solid

Monday: BONES (chicken necks, wings, drumsticks; duck necks; turkey necks; lamb soup bones; kangaroo tails; ox tails; lamb flaps; ribs)

Tuesday: MEAT (a raw meat mince thing I get from a racing greyhound supplier near me. I usually get a beef/lamb/chicken mix but if Im short on money I get chicken mince. I try to get a different meat though as their bones meal is usually poultry based.)

Wednesday: MEAT

Thursday: MEAT

Friday: BONES (unless mondays bones had very little meat on them, then I feed meat again)

Saturday: 1/2 ORGANS (liver or kidney usually) 1/2 FISH (canned tuna/salmon/sardines/mackeral)

Sunday: 1/2 ORGANS 1/2 FISH (basically the other half of the packets from the night before)

If you have any questions feel free to ask...