Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Duke (husky) Koda (husky/shepard mix) eating large raw turkey wings for breakfast. These guys love raw, and I would never go back to dogfood again.

Well I must say they look and sound like they are enjoying those wings. How long does it take for them to entirely eat the wings?
-----

Bob

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.

With the large turkey wings (those in the video, about hawk wing sized) Duke takes a few minutes total, Koda takes about 2-3 times as long to eat them. Raw chicken backs take Duke about a minute, and Koda about 20-30 seconds longer. The whiting fish area a different story, Duke prefers them to be cut up for whatever reason or he rips them into little pieces, Koda eats the entire fish like a kid with a Hershey bar, in a few minutes.
The other videos I have of Duke eating raw are when he was a puppy yet.
fish
www.youtube.com/watch?v=f78eY6CERac
chicken backs
youtube.com/watch?v=6hhoCPozSFg
youtube.com/watch?v=a3VR4jVwRTI

I can't grab video links on the computer I'm on, but I can just about imagine the happy faces working tirelessly on their meals. I do partial raw with my dogs and am slowly converting to full raw. I'm not comfortable giving raw wings and backs yet though. Call me paranoid, I can handle it. I also have a dog with allergies to most common proteins so it's harder/more expensive to obtain what I want to give them. The fish though- hmmmmm. Those bones aren't a big deal. Pups are going to have a nice meal this week.
-----
Chelle and the rest of the crew including, but not limited to Kita and Taiko (the shiba inu wrestle maniacs), Adi (reserved and dignified tabby cat), and all 28 reptiles

I know a local East German Shepard breeder who trains K-9s and breeds them. He demonstrates to anyone who wants one of his pricey pups that they can safely eat even weight bearing raw bones such as chicken legs at 8 weeks old and younger, he drops a pile of them to an entire litter right in front of you.
He also asks any prospective customers the question "what are you going to feed my puppy?", if you do not feed it raw exclusively you breach his contract, and legally lose the puppy. I have yet to hear of one person who has ever looked back after going full raw with their dogs.
I was told by a very good vet who was assigned to my pets (mainly for my reptiles), that the reason some dogs get protien allergies is from feeding bad choices of food with rotten protien sources (junk dryfood). Its not actually a protien source allergy, it is the trash that goes along with the protien sources, actually something poisonous with it. This was also explained later on to me by the owner of a local petfood store where we get collars, and supplements. It is commonly called a protien source alergy.
I had asked about my inlaws westie, he supposedly has an allergy to chicken, its actually an allergy to all the crap in the junk food containing chicken he was originally given when they got him.
Ever meet a dog, wolf, coyote, cat of any kind, that is allergic to raw meat and bones, nope, theres a reason for it.

I think it is funny when people think that since dogs have been eating grain based food for so long in this COUNTRY that their digestive systems have changed and that raw food is not safe now.
On the contrary, in our country dryfood has only existed from the oldest company since the 1920s or 30s. In most modern countries dogs have only been fed dryfood since the late 70s to early 90s, some still feed raw or whole sources only.
In the early 90s the dog was reclassified by biologists as a different species, why, they are 98% the same genetically as the gray wolf, the closest related subspecies in the world.
The only differences in their genetics have to do with behavior. Things such as a smaller brain (30% smaller), smaller teeth, smaller heads, less muscle around the jaws, the lack of high adrenaline, etc, have to do with genetic switches that both subspecies contain, but dogs have had no need for in 10s of thousands of years. The dog was changed to Canis Lupus Familiaris, the domesticated wolf in the early 90s.
The hardest thing for me to do when going raw was to take the plunge and drop dry all together, I thought that the dog would be missing something, but I was under that impression from too many dogfood company adds, and lies thoughout my life.
I was also paranoid about raw bones at first with Duke, but I just had no one to demonstrate to me that it was safe and normal for them to eat. Read Dr Ian Billinighurst "Give your dog a bone", it made me get over my paranoia.
But then again with few exceptions, did you realize that vet school students are taught their 2 hour canine/feline nutrition class by a purina sales rep, no wonder most people in this country think that dryfood is so good.
Take a dogs genetics, switch all the unneeded switches for high hormones, high adrenaline, for the need of a useful winter coat, for a stronger sense of smell, sight, hearing, and physical features to survive in the northern hemisphere, as well add the genes for a much more strict pack life, and you end up with the twisted steel mass of muscle, teeth, and fur called the gray wolf. Dogs are awesome.

All your points are very valid and things I've been told and have come across in other reasearch regarding raw diets. I guess I'm still in the phase of "needing to take the plunge." I'm not as overly concerned about the dog's ability to eat raw bones as I am with the effects of those bones in their system. I have seen first hand a raw bone splinter surgically removed from a dog's stomach. It's a risk I'm not yet ready to take with my dogs.

As for my older dog's protein allergies- I have been told that if I switch to raw food they would go away. However, she can't even tolerate a piece of cooked chicken breast fed to her from our meals. So, I would be very skeptical of offering her and i nraw form. I know the body needs to detoxify. I've seen that happen to my dogs already now that they are on partial raw diets. The change has already been amazing. So, I'll probably live at this plateau for a while. It works for now.
-----
Chelle and the rest of the crew including, but not limited to Kita and Taiko (the shiba inu wrestle maniacs), Adi (reserved and dignified tabby cat), and all 28 reptiles

There are places where it repeats itself, and each chapter explains what each ingredient does, and what these same ingredients do when combined wrong or cooked (in the case of dryfood overcooked or burnt to ash then reassembled).
But when you have finished it you will get this focus to do a bit more research into specific sources of nutrients, and to take the plunge.
I guess the repeating is done the way it is to show how each step lines up with each other, and how each source is used with or without each other, and how they all work together.
Something to keep in mind when feeding both raw and dry, because you are offering raw which contains many times the nutrients you have to offer much much less dry. There is s section on oversupplementing, and how dryfoods (and canned) have the vitamins added afterwards, but they do not balance correctly, in fact about patients of his who suffered from problems associated with over supplementation. Also he explains how many long term health problems that are sometimes associated with genetics are actually showing themselves as long term dietary.
I wish you luck, and hope to see some pics of your pup/pups.
Try something I did, start with a set amount of both raw and dry, over a period of time (a few days or a week each step) start to reduce dry, and increase raw.
You know I asked vets who have seen what bones have done to dogs and cats digestive systems, I asked them if they were 100% positive about the condition (raw or cooked) of these bones.
I asked them if they believed the customers, or if they thought that the customers were saying what they wanted the vet to believe, not always the truth.
Every vet I asked told me that it is very well possible and that they were lied to and had no way to verify it, but some cases they knew the customer lied (its common for pet owners to say what the vet wants to hear, and nowhere near the truth, because the owner doesnt want to appear to be a bad owner to the vet, this contributes to vets learning that animals are all frail, and weak, with no immune systems).
This has been a common subject in the reptile world (reptiles have stellar immune systems, when kept properly you have to shoot them to kill them, but 90% of owners think they die easy) and it holds true among mammals.
I told each to watch for another case, and to save the bone fragments, to simply bend the bone and see what it does, if it splinters (raw bones do not splinter, they are rubbery, and bend, they come apart like soft materials) they are cooked bones that were scavenged from the trash or given to the pet by irresponsible owners (I know many people who still feed cooked bones to dogs alot, and have never had a problem, but I guarrantee that every case in reality, of splintered bones causing a problem in dogs are all cooked bones).
If the bones bend and are soft they are raw bones (raw bones do not splinter, they are rubbery, and bend, they come apart like soft materials), when cooked they change on the molecular level to hard objects.

Good point about the bone maybe not being a raw one. That is a possibility and I should take that into consideration.

I'll definately read the book. I've been meaning to anyway. Also, a co-worker of my DH is going hunting for deer and duck and he's going to share. He doesn't want the meat to go to waste, but there's typically so much that he's giving us about half the deer and a few ducks. I can only eat so much venison and I dislike duck so I think the dogs are going to have a nice selection of cuts to choose from.

Over supplimenting- I've read that as well so I do cut way back on their kibble amounts. I also use brands that allow for supplimenting with raw.
-----
Chelle and the rest of the crew including, but not limited to Kita and Taiko (the shiba inu wrestle maniacs), Adi (reserved and dignified tabby cat), and all 28 reptiles

forums.doghobbyist.com/view.php?id=163714,163855

Here's my young man from last weekend. I'll have to grab pics of my old lady later.

-----
Chelle and the rest of the crew including, but not limited to Kita and Taiko (the shiba inu wrestle maniacs), Adi (reserved and dignified tabby cat), and all 28 reptiles

They are strikingly pretty dogs. The tan one catches my liking a bit more but the black and white stands out, in fact the black and white looks like a big, strong Shiba.
Nice pics.
They make me think of a smaller more manageable spitz breed, like a mini sled dog, or akita. Only they are better looking dogs than akitas are.
Bet they are fun to hang out with.
One point, they require alot less food than a larger dog, so feeding raw would be easy to keep enough around all the time.
Huskies are very frugal eaters usually, so they eat deceptively little for their size, that makes it hard to judge other breeds appetites
Did you know that supposedly a Sibe can do the same amount of work on 1/4 the amount of food as any other dog breed at or near the same size or weight. They conserve energy during hard exercise and workouts when they get a chance, they even move in a way requiring less energy, they have been tweaked by nature over thousands of years to survive on very little and do so much.

>> The tan one catches my liking a bit more
-The tan one is Kita and until I got Taiko (black) she was my favorite color for the breed. Still is for the most part.

>>>>in fact the black and white looks like a big, strong Shiba.
-Taiko is strong and lean. Not so big, but not tiny either. Shibas are deceptively large looking in pictures.

>>They make me think of a smaller more manageable spitz breed, like a mini sled dog, or akita. Only they are better looking dogs than akitas are.
---Shibas are smaller in size for a spitz breed, but large in attitude. As for the similarity to the akita, since both are derrived from t Japanses wolf, there should be similarities. The American Akita is too blocky, the Japanses Akita looks like a large Shiba.

>>Bet they are fun to hang out with.
>>One point, they require alot less food than a larger dog, so feeding raw would be easy to keep enough around all the time.
---Yeah, actually my dogs get fed less than most dogs of their size as well. I try to keep them lean as well though. Kita isn't as easy because she has medical issues that prevent her from getting as much exercise as Taiko, but they don't eat huge amounts either.

>>Did you know that supposedly a Sibe can do the same amount of work on 1/4 the amount of food as any other dog breed at or near the same size or weight. They conserve energy during hard exercise and workouts when they get a chance, they even move in a way requiring less energy, they have been tweaked by nature over thousands of years to survive on very little and do so much.
---That makes sence. With the Shiba breeders are striving for that type of effortless movement as well. Shibas are bred to hunt boar in the mountains of Japan. They are a poor man's hunting dog so the hunters need the dogs to cover lots of ground on rought terrain without tiring out. Sadly, the breed was almost whiped out in the early 70s so they are still rebuilding it to some degree.
-----
Chelle and the rest of the crew including, but not limited to Kita and Taiko (the shiba inu wrestle maniacs), Adi (reserved and dignified tabby cat), and all 28 reptiles