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my dear friends,
I am in urgent need to know following bothrops are one and the sane or diffrent? bothrops alternans
bothrops atrox
bothrops lanceolatus I need to submit a thesis and hence the question.
thanks
sincerely
dr.farokh master m.d. (hom)

>>my dear friends,
>>I am in urgent need to know following bothrops are one and the sane or diffrent? bothrops alternans
>> bothrops atrox
>> bothrops lanceolatus I need to submit a thesis and hence the question.

They are totally different species.

Bothrops alternatus (not anternans) is very distantly related to B. atrox and B. lanceolatus. B. atrox and B. lanceolatus are closely related and have been confused in the past, but are in fact clearly distinct species.

There are some papers on Bothrops spp. available from the publications page from my home page, link below. For info and photos of atrox and alternatis, see the "Projeto jararaca" link below - text is in Portuguese, but the photos are the same in any language....

Cheers,

Wolfgang Wuster
Projeto jararaca

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WW Home

are b. taeniatus still bothrops or are they now bothriopsis? How much is known about their venom? I know they have HUGE fangs, but haven't really heard much about them. I may have an opportunity to acquire a few, so I'm just curious (not that I plan on being bitten of course). AND, is Costa Rican Poly the av of choice for this particular snake?
Thanks and sorry for all the questions.
-tom

>>are b. taeniatus still bothrops or are they now bothriopsis?

That is basically a matter of opinion and personal choice. In terms of phylogeny, the evidence is very clear: the species of "Bothriopsis" (i.e., bilineatus, taeniatus, pulcher and a couple of others) are very much rooted within Bothrops. In other words, a B. atrox is more closely related to B. taeniatus than to B. alternatus.

My view is that this state of affairs is best reflected by regarding Bothriopsis as a part of Bothrops, i.e., call it Bothrops taeniatus

Others argue that since the arboreal Bothriopsis is fairly distinctive, it should be recognised as a separate genus, and Bothrops should be split further into smaller genera. This implies future descriptions of new genera for the altnernatus group, for the jararaca-neuwiedi group, for B. pictus, possbibly for B. venezuelensis, and possibly some more once some of the more obscure specis are brought into the equation.

Personally, I prefer to keep Bothrops, including taeniatus and bilineatus etc., as a single genus - they represent a relatively recent adaptive radiation following the colonisation of South America by the common ancestor of the all. Yes, they are more diverse in terms of species numbers, morphology and natural history than other New World pitviper genera, but there are good historical reasons for that.

Time will tell which view prevails.

> How much is known about their venom? I know they have HUGE fangs, but haven't really heard much about them.

Not an awful lot. There has been one study that compared various activities of Ecuadorian Bothrops but I don't have it at hand. I heard of one bite sustained in ecuador, by a huge specimen, in which the victim nearly died and had to have a leg amputated. I would certainly rate it on a par with B. atrox.

> I may have an opportunity to acquire a few, so I'm just curious (not that I plan on being bitten of course).

The thing to watch out for is how deceptively long this species can be. It is easy to use a 20" cage hook to hook out what looks like a tiny little ball of a coiled up snake from the corner of a cage, only to realise when it uncoils and heads up the stick in your direction that it is actually 3.5 ft long, and that you are well within range.

> AND, is Costa Rican Poly the av of choice for this particular snake?

Not really known. It would certainly be worth trying, but a selection of other antivenoms, such as Butantan (Brazil) or the anti-Bothrops antivenom produced by Instituto Nacional de Salud in Bogota, Colombia, may offer broader protection. Having a few vials of each may be your best policy, in case one or the other fails altogether against this species.

Cheers,

Wolfgang
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WW Home

>The thing to watch out for is how deceptively long this species can be. It is easy to use a 20" cage hook to hook out what looks like a tiny little ball of a coiled up snake from the corner of a cage, only to realise when it uncoils and heads up the stick in your direction that it is actually 3.5 ft long, and that you are well within range.

Hhhmmmmmm....... now why does that sound remarkably familiar? Ah yes, when visiting Wolfgangs lab in Feb, I was mucking around with his snakes, including what appeared to be a rather young Bothrops until about a meter of snake erupted from the corner of the tank, racing up the 20' Midwest hook I was holding! ;-p

Very deceptive indeed!

Ciao
B
Venomdoc Homepage

Hey mate,

>>Very deceptive indeed!

And very entertaining!

Cheers,

Wolfgang
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WW Home

There's nothing more fun than dealing with a 7' coil spring on a stick!!

Alas, though I managed to have a little neonate wriggle out of my hands and nick me on the thumb last week. We were up the Rio Nuevo on the Osa peninsula and hiked to a spot where a L. melanocephala was killed by some ticos last January. My cousin found this little one(1 of 8 we found last week) but I had no snake bag. He was desparate to photograph it so I attempted to carry it down the slope with wet hands. The neonates are the worst to pin...not a big enough head. Well it wriggled loose and stabbed me on the thumb. Not really bad, minor swelling and throbbing like a honey-bee sting.

Had quite a trip. Found some prime matabuey habitat, spoke with the gold miners who've found them.....got revved up just enough to plan a trip back to that area for the spring. Did manage to find a Hoffman's two-toed and a three-toed sloth; D. auratus, Phyllobates vittatus and oodles of frogs.

Gotta go tend to me sore feet. WW will send you sheds and scales soon.

Matt

Hi Matt,

Glad you're OK - even neonates can give you a great coagulopathy, as well as some leaky capillaries - not a great combo, I'm sure you'll agree.

>>Had quite a trip. Found some prime matabuey habitat, spoke with the gold miners who've found them.....got revved up just enough to plan a trip back to that area for the spring. Did manage to find a Hoffman's two-toed and a three-toed sloth; D. auratus, Phyllobates vittatus and oodles of frogs.
>>
>>Gotta go tend to me sore feet. WW will send you sheds and scales soon.

Brilliant. Sounds like you had a great time, terciopelo-nip notwithstanding. Must get myself over there some day as well, I miss neotropical herping!

Cheers,

Wolfgang
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WW Home

I'll keep the length thing in mind, I do remember hearing how lanky and long they get (7ft?). I didn't realize their venom was that potent though, glad I asked, I'll definitely keep that in mind if I can get them. I figured them as eyelash viperish, not that an eyelash viper bite wouldn't be bad, but I wasn't thinking atrox. Thanks for the help.
-tom