Reptile & Amphibian Forums

We bought a Siberian Husky at 8 weeks old. He virtually grew up with my 3-year-old daughter. Although he played a little rough with her at first, he soon learned to be more gentle with her. Yesterday, my daughter was playing in the yard with Suka and she fell down. When Suka saw her on the ground, he started trampling her! He would pounce on her a few times with his sharp claws, then run a few yards away, turn around, run back, and pounce some more. He did this time after time after time. It was brutal. I was screaming, my daughter was screaming, but nothing could make him stop. We have a big backyard, and they were on the far side of it. I ran out there, got Suka off of her, and picked her up. She was absolutely hysterical and crying. And all the while that I was walking back to the house with her, he kept jumping up at her and clawing at her. Why did he do this? Was this an introduction of more attacks to come? When I yell at him, Suka most always stops the negative behavior that he happens to be engaging in. But it was like he was a different dog; not our Suka. He would not listen and would not stop trampling her. Needless to say, I don't feel comfortable having him around her anymore. Should I get rid of him? Any advice will be appreciated.

You need an in-person expert who can evaluate the dog personally in order to help you decide. If this dog has not been neutered, that would be part of the problem. Ask your veterinarian to recommend a local expert. Meanwhile, you should probably allow no contact at all between the child and the dog. Not until you have expert help on the scene.
-----
Kathy Diamond Davis, author, "Therapy Dogs: Training Your Dog to Reach Others," 2nd edition, and the free Canine Behavior Series articles at http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=SRC&S=1&SourceID=47

It sounds to me like he thought she was playing and he was playing, got very excited and carried away. Doesn't sound to me like he meant to hurt her, just playing. Just my opinion.
staffordmom

Yes, I agree with that. It just flabbergasted me to watch such a thing since he'd never done anything like that before. He didn't look mean or angry while he was doing it; he actually had the "smile" on his face, so I am sure that he was not trying to hurt her. But what I did not expect was for him to keep on and on pouncing and trampling with her screaming and me yelling at him too. He regarded me, but would not respond. I just want to make sure that this never happens again. He has been a fabulous
pet. It breaks my heart to think about letting him go, but the thought of her getting hurt takes precedence by far. I have never had a Siberian before, and knew nothing about them when we bought Suka (I just fell in love with his blue eyes and soft downy fur and had to have him!). And he's turned out to be an amazing animal. I have read that Siberians 1)are terrible watch dogs; 2) are loyal but not selflessly dedicated to their owners (i.e. could take 'em or leave 'em); and 3) are usually not overly affectionate. Suka has proved them wrong on all counts. He is a loverboy and a big baby. He still sits on my lap if I'm sitting on the floor playing a game with my daughter. If he can be leaning on my husband, my daughter, or me, you can bet he is (if he's not downright laying on top of us!) And he has been a protector for my little girl. If he approaches someone he's never seen before INSIDE the house, and observes a relaxed atmosphere, he's their best friend too. But if a stranger approaches the fence when he's outside with Anna, he becomes very protective of her, his hair stands up, and he starts growling and grunting and snorting and barking so loudly until we get there, and then and only then he calms down. And he NEVER barks unless there is something that he truly thinks we should see--the ideal neighbor pet. My point with all of this is to help show why it shocked me so badly when he exhibited this behavior, and usually being so tuned in to Anna and her moods, how he could keep on and refuse to stop pouncing. I appreciate your thoughts.I think I will talk to the vet.

Without actually seeing what happened, it's very hard to comment overall and professional in person help is always helpful especially when dealing with dogs and kids together. The margin for error is just too small to make mistakes here. You need to find someone who can show you how to work with your dog and someone who understands primative breed instincts. Don't let the person you work with tell you your dog is untrainable. That's really not the case, the breed is just wired a bit different than a working breed or herding breed and you have to be careful not to set up that type of situation again until you can get this worked through. It's much harder to control children's behaviors around dogs than it is to control dog's behaviors around children and that may mean keeping your dog on a long line next to you so you can interrupt and circumvent the behavior before it happens. A squeeling child running through the yard and then falling- my dogs would maybe have had a similar problem with that scenario, but my dogs have been schooled as well and I can whistle to call my dogs to me and get a chase on me instead of someone/something else if needed. You have to work with the instinct and not against it- so scolding a dog in this mode will not work. In fact, it heightens the adrenalin and makes the situation worse. Just my two cents.
-----
Chelle and the rest of the crew including, but not limited to Kita and Taiko (the shiba inu wrestle maniacs), Adi (reserved and dignified tabby cat), and all 28 reptiles

It seems to me that he is not vicious or aggressive or else he'd have seriously harmed your daughter. He might have been playing and gotten carried away with the play, perhaps momentarily forgetting your daughter was not a dog pal. Siberians are well known for playing rough. One of the reasons Siberians are not good off leash is because they DON'T respond to your commands when they're running after something or towards something, basically being carried away with whatever it is they're doing/chasing. Or it's possible he may have been trying to establish dominance over her. Siberians (and perhaps dogs in general) do periodically test their owners. I know my 2 year old Sibe occasionally, for example, will jump all over me and be mouthy if I want to take him inside and he wants to stay outside! I have to take control (Binanca breath spray works wonders if he's mouthy!)

No matter what the reason, I would definitely consult a behavior specialist. This is not behavior that should be ignored in the hopes that it will pass. And in the meantime, DON'T leave the two together alone until things are better. Just to be on the safe side, don't leave them alone together for a long time. And carry that Binanca breath spray just in case!

Good luck - I know these things can be scary. But like I said, if he'd have wanted to harm your daughter, he could have and would have. Be the pack leader! All you humans should be above him in the pack, including your daughter. You might need to work on that. Sell him? Not unless he proves himself to be aggressive. But do watch him.

It should probably be mentioned here that Siberian Huskies have been involved in some very serious injuries to children, especially fatalities to babies I believe. Do be very, very careful.
-----
Kathy Diamond Davis, author, "Therapy Dogs: Training Your Dog to Reach Others," 2nd edition, and the free Canine Behavior Series articles at http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=SRC&S=1&SourceID=47

Me again - I was thinking last night - is he getting enough exercise? Very important with Siberians to get some real running as well as nomadic walking. I can walk my guy an hour a day and he still needs to RUN almost every day. Your guy may have some excess energy that has to come out some way.

Thanks for your thoughts. My husband's friend is a veterinarian (I didn't think about asking him about it) and he said something very similar to what you're saying. He said under no circumstances allow them to be alone together without extremely close supervision. But he said the dog was definitely NOT playing...that Siberians do not play that way. More later, my little girl is trying to add a few lines.

How are things going now? Is your daughter afraid of your dog now?

No! In fact, she grieves when she can't play with him in the yard like she used to. I close the gate on the deck, and they play there where I am nearby in the kitchen, or I bring Suka in the house while she's in the yard. But she'd rather have him out there with her. She says, "Please let him come out Mommy, he didn't mean to hurt me." It's so sad! I haven't seen one sign of aggression since then, but then I hadn't in all the time we've had him either until the other day. The vet friend of my husband's said he was showing her that he was dominant by doing that. He said to do some exercises with him and her, like hold her over top of him as if she was riding him (not with all her weight on him though) and have her put her head down where it's on top of his, or above his. This shows him that she is the dominant one. He grieves for her too. He always has to be touching her in some way, and she touching him. They are so attached to each other, it is so sad he had to do this.

For some more dominance "exercises," let her be in control of the food - let her put the bowl down for him to eat...and to sit and perhaps stay (at her command) before she puts the food down. Also, let her give him his treats...and only after he sits or shakes or lies down, again to her command. And make sure she goes out the doors first before him. There's plenty of advice in books and on the internet. I personally would try those sorts of things over the physical placing of her over him. You'll need to work with your daughter and your dog...it's not going to be automatic that your daughter will know what to do and how to do it. Again, good luck.

Thank you for your suggestions. I'm thinking more along those lines too now.

Vets are not behaviorists. This vet is correct to a degree, but the way to manage this scenario really needs a fair consistent approach that does not involve physical or intimidating situations between the dog and child. I'm never a fan of the physical ways a human tries to show a dog where they are in pack order. We are not dogs and the subtle nuances elude even the best humans.

There are wonderful books out there that can help- "Childproofing Your Dog" is one of them. Yet, there's still no substitute for in person help here from a person knowledgable of the breed.
-----
Chelle and the rest of the crew including, but not limited to Kita and Taiko (the shiba inu wrestle maniacs), Adi (reserved and dignified tabby cat), and all 28 reptiles

You're right, and thanks so much for the advice. I agree with you.

Thanks for posting the update. Your daughter sounds very sweet.

Thanks, she's a typical three year old--sweet as honey when things are going her way... Check out the pics of them I posted.

Without seeing what happened I cant say for sure, but what you described sounded like play. Sibes involved in an attack due to their strong instinct involve bites that do damage, not bouncy jumping.
I did some research into sibe and husky attacks in the US, every instance south of Alaska were on infants left alone for periods of time with the sibe, and involved a bite or bites that did the damage, all instances in Alaska (most of them from the CDC list) were purely sled dogs (not sibes, but mixed breed sled dog huskies)not socialized with other people, tied out on short leads, and involved very young kids.
Consult a trainer, or behaviorist, the vet doesnt seem as if they know what happened, or what advice is best for your family at all.
Good luck, constant supervision, and good training involving the whole family playing equal parts with the sibe is required, not just one or 2 of you.

I thought I replied but didn't see it on here. I was saying thank you for your input on the subject, and I hope that you're right about the playing. The thing about biting with Suka is that occasionally he'll bite her when they're playing, but so very softly, I can see he's taking great care NOT to hurt her. So cute to watch. Your message was encouraging.

This was a dogs way of playing. Yes, it seemed a little rough to you and your small daughter, but it was playing all the same. This breed NEEDS to be exercised twice a day on a regular basis. If he is walked for thirty mins twice a day then he will be too pooped to play rough.

Also, if you have NOT neutered the dog, then this kind of play can be a way of asserting his dominance with the child, to set up a pecking order in your family. Dogs are pack animals by nature, and desire to be at the head of the pack. Your family replaces the pack order in a dogs mind, and so he is trying to find his place in the group. I suggest a puppy class is in order to show him who is boss, and where he belongs in your group.

Hope this helps.