Reptile & Amphibian Forums

OK Gail is making me ask this. I'm squirming in my chair as I type.

Coma our 7 year old boy has become fanatical about the many animals we have around the house here in Montana, where by the way we had a frost warning two nights ago. He is up all night sniffing and whining at the doors. We have plenty of whitetail deer that hang out in our yard at night.

A few days ago we had a few mice in the house. They are now in micey heaven. Coma though still runs around all night barking at where they were. We cleaned the floors real thoroughly but to no avail.

Would neutering reduce his hunting instinct? Would it calm him down some? His rather short and semi glorious show career is well over so that is not an issue.

More importantly is it safe at this age?

(PS $50.00 to each person that says not to do it)Don't tell Gail.

I believe recent research finds that neutering and spaying do little to modify a dog's essential behaviors. Of course, the details are escaping me. I want to say I read this in a recent Whole Dog Journal. I'll look through back issues this evening.

Meanwhile, try wearing Coma out a few nights in a row. Take him for a run or, do what I do, run the dog beside a bike. I use the Walky Dog leash to attach the dog safely to my bike stem. I've used the Springer but prefer Walky dog.

I've found a worn out Pharaoh hound is usually a reasonable PH, well, as reasonable as PH's can be.... Just my .02 and worth just about that.
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Ruth
Sharing a home with
Gracie the Greyhound,
Bo, Galadrial's Cuervo Gold,
Harvey, CH. Lileo's Wild Rabbit Pooka, JC, CGC,

At the bridge--
HRH Chantze, Chart Polski, CGC (the most Polish Princess),
Rufous T. Firefly, CGC (my first PH--he knew how and when to beam a grin)

Thanks, makes sense.

The reality is that the effect of neutering will vary from dog to dog and breed to breed - but here is my input for what it is worth...(which appears to be $50, by the way...)

>>>Would neutering reduce his hunting instinct?

No it will not. They hunt from instinct, not from having or not having trsticles...

>>>Would it calm him down some?

Again, unlikely. I had my Border Collie neutered at 7 years old and he is more hyper than ever. The down side to his neutering is that he has balooned up in weight and I cannot get it off. His food has been cut, his exercise has been increased, and nothing works. I have had the thyroid tested four times, all to no avail...

Having him neutered is perhaps the biggest regret that I have with my dogs...

Instead of a really fit, hyper border collie, I now have a big, fat, hyper border collie with no testicles...

The other interesting thing is that my border collie's coat has changed from a smooth, beautiful glossy coat to a kinky/wavy coat that has lost all it's shine...

>>>More importantly is it safe at this age?

Probably, assuming that he is in good health, though anesthesia is always a concern, and even more so with hounds in particular...

I'm with you Alan - just say "no".
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Robert

www.TheAnimalLawyer.com

We have enough youth...let's search for a fountain of smart.

I knew I could count in you Robert. Check's in the mail.

I will donate $50.00 to the specialty fund.

Coma thanks you... a lot!!!

Alan - I have a lot of wildlife hanging around my new place in AZ. Javelina seem to be the most interesting to my PH. When we first got here all three went nutso over every critter they saw, every day, all day and all night. Now that we've been here a few months familiarity seems to have bred less interest. They still bark out the windows at rabbits, catch squirrels and lizards but they are not obsessing any more. You might just give it some time.

All my dogs are altered, I have seen no physical changes for the worse nor any behavioral changes at all for either the boy or the girls. I think the outcome of alteration depends on the individual dog.
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Samantha Parsons
Merit Pharaoh Hounds
ASFA Regional Director (Region-10)

HOME OF
MeToo
Corsair and
Journey the Whippet

In Absentia: BetMe
At The Bridge: Bedelia and Legend

Congratulations for getting out of CA. I'll be down for some of those "pigs".

Thanks for your input.

The other two my neutered PH and my spayed Cirneco could care about all this animal activity. We call Coma the sheriff because he guards teh garden and fruit trees from the Magpies.

I have had several spayed and neutered dogs and their behavior didn't seem to change in regards to hunting and hyperness.

There is always a risk with anaethesia but at seven years old is probably safe. I sure wouldn't do it at 13!

I don't think that neutering will solve this issue. Coma just wants more mice
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Theresa

sharing my home with Cardhu, Allie, and Miss Ruadh (waiting at the bridge: Mirage and Dharma)

Cut those puppies off! I don't think you can look forward to it influencing his prey drive, but it will make him an easier dog to live with. Besides all that, it will help eliminate some potential future health issues. It should be pefectly safe to neuter him at his age. Sorry Alan ... I could use the $50.00
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Pam Haig
Mia Pharaohs
"Home of the good, the bad & the obnoxious"
How beautiful it is to do nothing and then rest afterward
*Spanish proverb"

I second this! Honestly, it won't change his behavior at this late date, but his long term health will benefit. Certainly that's more important than male squeamishness.
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Carmen Davis, owned by Serra, Glory and Rooney
Naha Pharaoh Hounds - Washington State
www.NahaPharaohs.com

Easy for you to say....

Coma and I thought we were safe and then Pam and you voted for teh snip. I'm calling the best of five rule.

Alan & Coma:

Don't buy the "health benefits" line...

Recent literature suggests that the "health benefits" of spaying and neutering are not what people commonly believe.

Check out this article in support of Coma's hope to remain intact...

No matter where you come down on the spay/neuter issue, this is pretty interesting stuff..

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/longtermhealtheffectsofspayneuterindogs.pdf
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Robert

www.TheAnimalLawyer.com

We have enough youth...let's search for a fountain of smart.

So that's why I have geriatric cognitive impairment.

Coma and I are hanging in on this subject both literally and figuratively.

Sorry, I know a wonderful Pharaoh boy who had testicular cancer and did not survive. Also know several girls who had mammary tumors, a couple were malignant. That's enough for me. My girls are spayed after they've had their babies and I snip my boys before old age.
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Carmen Davis, owned by Serra, Glory and Rooney
Naha Pharaoh Hounds - Washington State
www.NahaPharaohs.com

Very sad but Coma said when it is his time he wants to go with the "boys" going with him.

And you are 100% correct Carmen. Don't care what articles refute these facts. I could find dozens that would back it up. If a dog is not going to be used in a breeding program, it's just plain not worth the risk, at least as far as I'm concerned. The instant anyone here is out of the breeding program, they go under the knife.
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Pam Haig
Mia Pharaohs
"Home of the good, the bad & the obnoxious"
How beautiful it is to do nothing and then rest afterward
*Spanish proverb"

Funny - nobody seems to have these reservations about spaying. Must be that male squeamishness Carmen pointed out.

Snicker
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Samantha Parsons
Merit Pharaoh Hounds
ASFA Regional Director (Region-10)

HOME OF
MeToo
Corsair and
Journey the Whippet

In Absentia: BetMe
At The Bridge: Bedelia and Legend

I don't think it is a sex biased thing but if it was perhaps women are more comfortable with surgeries. Men don't even like to go to the doctor for checkups.

Everything at my house is spayed/neutered except Ruadh. We have always done that because they were never going to be used for anything other than couch decorations.

I still can't figure out if Cardhu was a spay or a neuter considering he had 2 testicles, uterine horns, and a uterus.
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Theresa

sharing my home with Cardhu, Allie, and Miss Ruadh (waiting at the bridge: Mirage and Dharma)

I'm calling the best of five rule.

***Maybe I'll just have to call Gale and have a chat
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Pam Haig
Mia Pharaohs
"Home of the good, the bad & the obnoxious"
How beautiful it is to do nothing and then rest afterward
*Spanish proverb"

Not that this should influence a decision but in CA:

Altered dog, senior rate $5.00, regular rate $15.00

Intact dog, senior rate $60.00

no breaks for seniors for intact dog licenses in CA. CA is desperate - they have started sending renewal notices for dog licenses and are threatening people with a $250.00 fine for non compliance. Don't tell the other states!
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Samantha Parsons
Merit Pharaoh Hounds
ASFA Regional Director (Region-10)

HOME OF
MeToo
Corsair and
Journey the Whippet

In Absentia: BetMe
At The Bridge: Bedelia and Legend

To late Sam...
After I lost my hound mix in '96 I was threatened with repeated mailings. That was Clark County in Washington.  I repeatedly told them she was deceased, I finally just ignored them. 

After losing Kayo 2 years ago I have now told the current county twice, hopefully they are done with the threats.  This is Washington County, Oregon. 

As to spay/neuter?  
Always in my book.  I find they are a little easier to live with without the seasons for the girls and the boys don't get as enthralled around enticing females.  And in the Chihuahua's in the family, early neutering seems to have better house training results (anecdotal not scientific results).  I do remember reading a reputable report a few years back that sterilization reduces the likelihood of testical/mammary cancer.

Biggest personal difference I've noticed in my own or family's dogs?  
My Chihuahua girl was 6 years old before I was brave enough to have little 4lb her put under to be spayed.  It was the best decision ever for her, her coat finally flourished into a nice full longhair coat.  

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tabitha
      msg posted from my iPhone

owned by Kahla and Dante'

FC Nefer-Temu Kahlua RAE MC CGC FCh TT HIC
K-Tai Dante' RE SC HIC

i am confused with your last statement sam.

still being a resident of california, i have never paid a
fee to the state for a license, it is the city you live in that
charges the fees. california definitely is going broke but
sacramento doesn't see or cash my check, glendale does.
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patric
*** Pharaoh's A Go-Go Home of Kozmo ~ Multi Group Multi BIF DC Shema's Kozmopolitan el-Niem MC FCh LCM***RIP***, Fanny*** DC Mia's Summer Fantasy SC FCh , Joe*** A Go-Go's Cuppa Joe ~ and Beth ~ mom of Hunter Joy and Cormac Lightning***

pharaohsagogo@aol.com

Sorry for the confusion. Now that I don't live there it's all just one big foreign country to me. I should have said Kern County is desperate - they are the licensing agency where I used to live. You appear be paying to the City of Glendale rather than LA County.

I haven't checked on fees here in Maricopa County but I'm betting they are less than anywhere in CA. No stupid dog laws here, yet!
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Samantha Parsons
Merit Pharaoh Hounds
ASFA Regional Director (Region-10)

HOME OF
MeToo
Corsair and
Journey the Whippet

In Absentia: BetMe
At The Bridge: Bedelia and Legend

maricopa co. yearly fees. they aren't that much cheaper...

License Fees
Type
Comments Cost

Sterile Sterilization certificate for proof of sterilization required. Must have proof of current rabies vaccination. $17.00

Non-Sterile Must have proof of current rabies vaccination. $42.00

NOTE: Late fees are $2.00 per month for sterile dogs and $4.00 per month for non-sterile dogs.
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patric
*** Pharaoh's A Go-Go Home of Kozmo ~ Multi Group Multi BIF DC Shema's Kozmopolitan el-Niem MC FCh LCM***RIP***, Fanny*** DC Mia's Summer Fantasy SC FCh , Joe*** A Go-Go's Cuppa Joe ~ and Beth ~ mom of Hunter Joy and Cormac Lightning***

pharaohsagogo@aol.com

Here in Montana it is the opposite. Intact is free and if you ain't got no ba11s there is a $500.00 penalty.

I agree Carmen and wanted to say what you did but couldn't think of a nice way to do it. My bad.
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Samantha Parsons
Merit Pharaoh Hounds
ASFA Regional Director (Region-10)

HOME OF
MeToo
Corsair and
Journey the Whippet

In Absentia: BetMe
At The Bridge: Bedelia and Legend

Can't help you on the neutering decision, but here's my experience:

Atreyu is my five year old male who was neutered at 2yrs old. HE IS BY FAR THE BIGGEST AND FASTEST HUNTER I HAVE. Just about every other night he brings something home. He even wears a bell to alert the animals, but to no avail. He also has never been bred (Although he has tried quite a few times, since being neutered and even locked on a bitch once too), but when my bitch was in her first season and she was in her crate, he dug a hole in the carpet next to her, trying to get into her crate.

So neutering, in Trey's case did not alter his behavior.

And I read that Whole Dog Journal article too that says the old beliefs of needing to neuter for health benefits is not a main concern for majority of dogs. So if there is not other issue like aggression, flighty behavior or too much big boy attitude, then why risk it, IMO.

No surgery in my book, is far better than any.
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Bekki and
Atreyu AKA BIF FC DesertPhoenix Emerald Warrior, FCH,CGC,SC,RA,NA HIC, PHCA Versatility Excellent 2008
Bridget AKA ILP Kaije Staind Glass Beauty "Resident Cheerleader"
Uber aka AKC CH, UKC MBBIS CH XO Uber Alles, SC
La-La aka FC XO Ulala,SC 2010 PHCA Western Specialty Best of Winners

health issues or not,
aggression or not
hunting drive or not
do you plan on breeding him?
in a house with any females
are you sure you could prevent an "accident"?
there are plenty of experienced owners on these boards that woke up
to an oops litter.
stop thinking with the little head...
you could always have neuticles implanted during the proceedure
and he will still have a pair when he gets home
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patric
*** Pharaoh's A Go-Go Home of Kozmo ~ Multi Group Multi BIF DC Shema's Kozmopolitan el-Niem MC FCh LCM***RIP***, Fanny*** DC Mia's Summer Fantasy SC FCh , Joe*** A Go-Go's Cuppa Joe ~ and Beth ~ mom of Hunter Joy and Cormac Lightning***

pharaohsagogo@aol.com

I am late and guilty of not reading all the responses but I have 1 neutered and 1 intact male and neutering did nothing for his hunting drive he won't even follow a lure has to hunt that too. Good luck with whatever you decide.
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Denise
"I am I because my little dog knows me"
- Gertrude Stein