Reptile & Amphibian Forums

A couple of weeks ago I thought Daffy had a bug of some kind. She was not playing like usual and after she ate, she got weak and it looked like her stomach was bothering her. The next day she looked better. But during that week I noticed after playing she would tire out faster and go to back to her bed faster. I took her to the vet and they tested her bloodsuger and it was really low. It was 27 and the vet said it should be above 70. This test was taken after nearly a 4 hr fast. The vet gave her a shot and I have to give her prednisone (sp?). I also asked for a blood panel. 1 1/2 yrs ago Daffy had a blood panel before she got her teeth cleaned. They had found 1 of the liver test to be very high. She was put on antibiotics for a month. That brought it down, but it's still on the high side. So we've been keeping an eye on that. I want to make sure her liver isn't causing this problem. I'll find out the results on Monday. But for now we're treating her for insulinoma.
I've never had a ferret that had that. So if anyone has any tips on care and what to watch for, I would like to hear them. I belong to a ferret shelter and I know I can get help from them. But I figured I might hear some other tips and I can help others at the shelter. Daffy is going to be 7 in March, so she's a senior. I've never had any health problems with her except for the liver test. So I'm hoping she'll be able to live out her full life without too many problems from insulinoma.
Thanks for any help!
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Kat
Ferret mom to Jasmine and Daffy
A Cheesehead from Wisconsin

Hi Kat ~ I did have a ferret wth insulinoma but she also had adrenal disease (had 2 surgeries for that). She did not have insulinoma for very long as she passed in a matter of months. I do now that when their back end collapses or falls over when they are walking/playing it is a symptom- and I believe one of the 1st that is noticeable. Also increased thirst and peeing (as with humans). There are ways to treat these episodes of low bs with Karo syrup but you must check with your vet about that. I believe steroids is the treatment of choice at this time ad some live quite happily on them for quite awhile. Very, very best wishes to you both! Keep us posted!
Nancy, Hocus Pocus & Hobbes

Insulinoma is very manageable. You should give her high protein meals along with the pred. Pred is very hard on their stomachs and should always be given with food. Stage 2 chicken baby food is fine but it gets expensive so I make a chicken soup for my ferrets. All of my ferrets get it at least once a day and the 3 with insulinoma get it at least twice a day. As the disease progresses the pred dosage will most likely have to be increased so it's a good idea to get a glucometer and start checking glucose levels on a regular basis. Honestly, all ferrets over 3 should be checked at least twice a year so you can catch insulinoma before seizures start. Each seizure causes some brain damage.

If your ferret does seize, you need to rub something sugary on the gums immediately. Karo syrup, glucose gel (you can buy it at your pharmacy), or even sugar water. This will help bring them around and needs to be followed immediately by a high protein meal so they don't crash again. A little dose of pred during this time will help stabilize them also. I have also found that giving about 20cc of lactated ringers subq helps shorten the duration of the seizure.
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I've learned that I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it.

High protein meals are very important, and avoid anything sugary unless the ferret starts to crash, then use Karo syrup on the gums, use a q-tip to put it on to avoid an accidental bite. The gums can absorb the sugar quickly. You need to avoid sugar in all other circumstances because when the body receives sugar, it's natural response it to produce insulin. Your ferret, if she has insulinoma, is already over-producing insulin, so you want to avoid this stimulation unless it is an emergency.
If she is in good health, even at age 7, you might consider srugery. The last I heard, life expectancy after surgery was an average of over a year, but without surgery, it is around 144 days. I had one insulimona guy and he lived for about 3 more years after surgery, most of those without any pred treatment, just diet management. If the surgery is at all possible, it is highly recommended as the best course of treatment.

As long as the insulinoma is managed they can live years with it without surgery. My first little girl lived 3 yrs after developing insulinoma and she never had surgery. I lost my AJ this past July after having the surgery though, he didn't make it through the night. The only ferret I've actually lost to insulinoma was a little girl who came in having grand mal seizures. We weren't able to get them under control and helped her to cross. I've had at least one ferret with insulinoma for the past 5 yrs and with the exception of Ming they've all died from things other than insulinoma. Even with surgery insulinoma always comes back too. Nicoletta had a partial pancreatectomy before coming to me. A year later it's back. You'd never know she's sick though. She's a chubby, active ferret.

Also, keep in mind that carbs turn into sugar in the bloodstream so try to keep those to a minimum.
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I've learned that I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it.

Thanks for the tips and info on insulinoma. I mentioned that Daffy also had a high reading on one of the liver tests about 1 1/2 yrs ago. Last November it had come down a good amount but it was still high. On this last blood test it had dropped even more. So the vet ruled a liver problem out. That's a relief.
Right now I'm giving her .5 cms of pred twice a day. I mix it with a little canned cat food and a couple of drops of ferretone. I don't give my ferrets surgary treats. She's been doing great. The vet said to call back in a month (unless she gets bad again) and let him know how she's doing on this dose. He said if she hasn't had any problems, then he would lower the dosage to .4 cms. He would like to keep it as low as possible and still have her in good health. He said he would test her again in 3 months. He also mentioned how the blood sugar can change every day.
Nancy, when my 1st boy got an adrenal tumor the vet told me (and I read about this later) that also having insulinoma along with that isn't uncommon. Thank Heaven neither one of my boys had that happen.
WeaselLuver, I'm thinking of using the chicken baby food instead of the cat food for putting the meds in. That might be easier to digest and have more protein.
Cathy, Daffy's in good health otherwise, but for now I'll keep her on pred. I know pred can have side affects after long use. I'll talk to the vet about this. Thanks for that tip on q-tips. I was wondering if she had a violent siezure how I could get the syrup on her gums. I've had 2 ferrets that had siezures. One would just get stiff. The 1st time it happened it looked like she was having a heartattach! After 5 minutes or so, she came out of it and was fine. Really scared the crap out of me! The 2nd one would snap her jaws. I had to keep my hands away when this happened.
Thanks again for the tips. This has really helped make me feel more comfortable knowing how to handle things.
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Kat
Ferret mom to Jasmine and Daffy
A Cheesehead from Wisconsin

Sounds like your vet has a good handle on the situation, that's good. He's right in that you want to use the smallest dose possible to control the symptoms and if you're using Pediapred that's a really low dose. There are different types of pred & strengths. The Pediapred I use has about 1mg per .75cc. My Prednisolone is twice as strong. For the most part ferrets handle pred very well. Ulceration is the main worry. I believe it was Dr. Williams who spoke about it at last year's symposium. He said that there isn't a max dosage of pred, just what the individual ferret can handle without ulcerating. Long term use can cause weight gain and what is called "pred belly" but it's really not a health concern.

Are you giving the pred once or twice a day? It's normal to break up the dose in two to help regulate glucose throughout the day. If you're only giving it once, you may want to ask your vet about that.

If you'd like my soup recipe let me know. It's really easy to make and I think it's better for them than cat food or baby food. And you can make about a month's supply for one ferret for about $4-$5. My fuzz think everytime the microwave dings it's soup time.
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I've learned that I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it.

Yes, I have pediapred for Daffy. I give it twice a day. Years ago I was on some meds and the instructions said you could take it with a meal or without. I took it inbetween meals, but then I got some side affects. My doc told me unless the instructions said to take it between meals, I should take meds with meals. She said people had fewer problems when they took meds with meals. After that I didn't have a problem. Since then, I always give meds to my ferrets with some food, unless the instructions say not to.
The vet I go to is the vet for the ferret shelter. He's had a lot of experience with ferrets of all ages and many different problems. He also does laser surgery on some surgeries. I've had 2 excellent vets in the past, but they both have left my area. This vet is about 40 minutes from me, but he's worth the drive. I feel very good having him for my girls.
And yes, I'd like that chicken soup receipe. It sounds like it would be a good treat for them anytime.
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Kat
Ferret mom to Jasmine and Daffy
A Cheesehead from Wisconsin

It's best to use a whole chicken with organ meats & bones if you have something to grind the bones. In that case, cook the chicken in a slow cooker so the bones become very soft and won't splinter. I had to quit doing that because my hand grinder aggravates my carpal tunnel syndrome and I haven't yet been able to afford an electric grinder. Maybe Santa Paws will be good to me this year. So, this what I do for now.

4-5 lbs of chicken, pressure cooked (just because it's faster and retains more nutrients), deboned
2 cups kibble, soaked in chicken broth
2-3 hard boiled eggs with shells
2 tablespoons Wysong Feline Biotic (vitamin/mineral supplement)

Puree` chicken, kibble, eggs/shells with chicken broth in blender. Sprinkle on the Biotic. Mix well and freeze. Makes app. 3 quarts. Also, adding bonemeal to this would be a good idea even though the eggshells serve most of the same purposes. I just keep forgetting to buy some so I'm not sure how much I would need to add. Make sure it's food grade bonemeal.

Depending on how many ferrets you have you can either freeze it in ice trays (1 cube per ferret is a portion) or freeze it in Gladware type containers and keep enough in the fridge to last a few days. I go through a quart every 2 days so I always have one ready to use and one thawing. It'll keep in the fridge for about a week.

When you're ready to feed it, heat it with a little broth, water, or cream...stir and serve. The first few times, your ferrets may be resistant because they don't recognize it as food. Force them to taste it. I've never had to force any ferret more than 3 times and most only once.
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I've learned that I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it.

Hi! Sorry I haven't been back sooner. I've been sick since Friday and just didn't feel like doing anything. Of course I'm feeling better now...just in time to go back to work! LOL!
The receipe looks nice and easy. I don't have a grinder myself. I have carpel tunnel in my left hand and arthritis in my thumb on my right hand, so sometimes I have a hard time doing things also. I've never heard of Wysong Feline Biotic. Is that similar to Ferretone? I'll look for it. I imagine it's in the cat section of the pet store. I only have the 2 ferrets right now, so I'll be using the ice cube tray.
I'm hoping in a month to get 2 more ferrets. It just depends on how Daffy is doing. I'll be adopting from the shelter so I can see how they get along before I adopt any. This past week Daffy has been doing really well. No slow-downs.
Thanks again for that receipe. I'll be making it up this week.
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Kat
Ferret mom to Jasmine and Daffy
A Cheesehead from Wisconsin

Sorry you've been under the weather, hope you're feeling better now. The Wysong F-Biotic isn't available in any pet stores that I know of, I get it from their website. The addy for it is:

http://wysong.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WOTTPWS&Product_Code=F_BIOTIC&Category_Code=SUP&Product_Count=6

There is a store locator on the site so there may be somewhere you can buy it locally.

I like this supplement because it has taurine very high on the list. Several of my insulinomic ferrets have pretty much quit eating kibble in favor of the soup and the little bit of kibble in the soup doesn't provide enough taurine for them so this supplement addresses that. It's a powder and a small bottle will last you a couple years.

Since you're making this for only 1 ferret you might want to cut the recipe in half unless you have a whole bunch of ice trays.

Glad Daffy is feeling better, pred is a wonderful thing.
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I've learned that I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it.