Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello, I had already owned a female, and I purchased another. they fought at first but after a day seemed to be fast friends.. then I noticed one getting fat and while she gave birth a week later I could tell by the squeeks I herd and that she has lost most of the weight.. I took a peek through the vent screen ( I have them in a 10 gallon glass aqu.) the non pregnant female Is named Shena and she seems to be asleep in the nest And Mena, the mother is ripping away at the cardboard tube in there seemingly not taking care of the babies.. I saw atleast one little red pup.. but I am worried.
Does anyone have any advice or knowledge as to whats going on?

Thanks
Wence

I suggest leaving them alone. The mother will either care for the babies or eat them. NOt much else you can do but the best thing to do is not stress them and peeking at them or trying to handle or look at the babies, will do just that.

After about 3-5 days you should be able to interact with your mice as normal but watch carefully for signs of stress. Let the mice come out to see you, offer treats, but again, don't try and look at the babies. Or just take very quick peeks if you can do so without wrecking the next. IF the mother gets nervous, basically if she runs over to see what youa re doing to her babies, leave them alone. She is feeling protective and could bite so best to not encourage her to do so by bothering the babies. IF she seems content to do whatever she is doing and ignores you peeking at the babies, then you should be fine doing so. Don't over due it though.

However, after the first week, mothers tend to settle down to nursing and are not so easily stressed. But again, watch her reactions and leave her alone and the babies alone if she starts to act aggressive or stressed.

Another point..if your new mouse arrived about 20 days ago, it is very likely it is actually a male. In which case, your female will be pregnant again, as they can be impregnated by the male within 24 hours of giving birth. Separate the male before the next litter is born, so you don't end up with too many mice.
-----
PHLdyPayne

oh no the other mouse is a female I am fairly sure. as I did the sexual organs compare and both Mena and Shena have the same. I believe Mena was pregnant when I got her.

And I wanted to add I hear squeaks every now and then.. And she has built a rather large nest by shredding the paper towel roll , the bedding and the chemical free tissue paper I gave her also. and I hardly see either of my mice for more then 10-20 minutes drink eat run on the wheel and then vanish, is it likely they are caring for the babies ?

And thank you so much for your responce I will admit, I tried to take a peek, BUT I did not touch the nest I was simply looking from the outside above the screen with a tiny light and have since not looked thinking it best to leave them be. As I would not like to have someone watching me ><

Thanks
Wence-

One thing I have noticed during the times I had bred mice is their babies are very noisy when they nurse. They will make all kinds of soft squeaky noises (kind of the mouse version of fussy whining) as they shuffle about for a teat. Once they all get a teat, they will quiet down..but if there are more babies than teats, every couple minutes more squeaking will happen as a hungry impatient baby tries and knock off a full baby off the teat so they can eat.

SO basically when the mother goes to nurse, you will here a sudden 'babble' of soft squeaks which will settle down in a few minutes...then you may hear the odd ones now and again till next feeding time. This is all normal.

Sometimes I wonder how mice and rats survive in the wild..I can hear them nursing anywhere in my apartment and loudly, especially with nursing rats. I wonder if my neighbors hear it sometimes LOL

It sounds like so far so good, both females are taking care of the babies (only one can actually nurse..unless she is expecting too. But the non parent female will help clean and keep the babies warm while 'mom' takes a break, eats etc)

When you get to next cleaning day...you can clean two ways (I would wait a week before cleaning from time of birth...even if the cage gets smelly) the way I usually do it and never had problems with, is remove the two adult mice first, put them together in a holding container. Then I take out the pinkies, and I put them separate from the adults (I sometimes wrap them in a paper towel or soft cloth to keep them warm). Put aside some fo the nest bedding...clean the cage, put in new bedding. Make a 'nest, and line it with the old nest bedding, put the pinks back into the cage. Then put the adults back in. They will move all over to explore and smell the familiar smell of the nest...I never had babies get eaten by doing this.

Another method, if you are worried, is just clean as much as the cage as possible, but don't' clean around the nest. In my view, this would actually be more stressful as you are moving about in the cage while everybody is still in it...
-----
PHLdyPayne

I think I will just let it go until the smell is unbearable so probably 2 weeks. As I really do not wish to disrupt the nurseing of pups for something like smell. I can deal with it.but I was curious if you could give me some advice on when I can handle the mother and the babies themselves ( I do not know how many ). Oh I wanted to give the two girls a treat but all I have is a "Munchables shread-a-abox- Hidden honey seed treat bar for Hamsters and Gerbils" Not sure if thats ok for mice.

Thanks
Wence

That shread-abox is fine for mice as well.

Other great treats for mice are pretty much any non sweetened cereal (ie no Frosted Flakes or mini-wheats type sweetened cereals) Cheerios are really great treats. They are also much more cheaper than the treats you can buy for mice in pet stores.

In my experience, after the first week of caring for the babies, the adults will be ok with normal short interactions with their 'people'. Depending on how social they were before giving birth will indicate how ok they are with you interacting with them again with babies in the cage.

Offer a cheerio through the bars of the cage or if you have a tank, lower your arm in the cage slowly and as far away from the nest as possible, and offer treats that way. If the mice are really skittish, just talk to them softly so they know you are there, if they come out to see what's up, you can drop a few cheerios close to them (but not too close, don't want them to scare them away) They will quickly associate your presence for food...once they are used to having you around, you can put your arm in and offer food held in fingers or just in the palm of your hand.

After waiting two weeks, I don't see it being any problem cleaning the cage.

How the mice react to having you check out the babies and even handling them really depends on them. Most mice who are ok with their owners around, dont' mind their babies being handled after they are used to taking care of their babies. It is always best not to try and handle the babies while the mother is nursing them or with the babies. They can be very defensive and try and bite, even if it just looks like they are sniffing your fingers, they can still bite if you get too close. But most don't run snarling if they are at one end of the cage and you peak or pick up some babies.

For the most part, nervous mothers only eat their young in the first week after giving birth. By the time the babies are a week old, nervous mothers are typically settled into how to care for the babies. This eating of young I find is much more common amount mouse colonies bred to provide food for reptile and other animals. Feeder mice tend to be much less socialized with humans and thus, stress much easier. Though I have bred mice in the past for feeders, I have kept many as pets as well and I socialize even my feeder mice to some extent (its their babies that are used for feeders and the adults I enjoy as pets). I don't breed mice anymore for feeders as nearly all my snakes are happy with frozen thawed feeder mice.

IN 4 weeks after birth, you will need to separate the male babies from the females. You can keep all the male babies together, just have a large cage with plenty of hiding spots and two or more water bottles and food dishes. This drastically keeps down on fighting amount adult males. However, I have found brothers kept together tend to get along ok but not always. As long as no females are added in with those males, they should be ok...but again, big cage. Spread hides from eachother. This allows the males to have their own 'territories'.

The females can be kept altogether or you can separate some or all of the young females into their own home.

-----
PHLdyPayne

Firstly, Thank you very much for all your help. I will keep you updated on how things go also. I put my hand in today and let the mother sniff around me she didnt seem to mind as she had stopped running on her wheel she even put her front paws on my fingers then after sniffing for a few moments decided it was time to run on the wheel for a few more minutes then back to baby feeding.

The biggest problem for me is my parents as I am to poor to move out they are very ..belligerent about my mice. But we will also see how that goes.. But 4 weeks from the 11th I should separate the sex's. So I should pick up another aqu. 10 gallon and just go from there.

Thanks
Wence

I was able to pick up the mom today I left my hand near the wheel and she eventually came into my hand I took her out for about a minute or two and put her back I didnt' want to stress her out. Hope I didnt foul up :x

I tried to put an image of the babies I took today from a hole in the side of the nest next to the glass which I gave her paper to cover and she did .. but she didnt seem to mind the picture. They are cute.

I know the pic is about a week old now, but the pinks look nice and healthy. It sounds like the mother is pretty used to you so you should be able to handle the babies now for short periods. If she acts nervous, put the babies down and leave them be. At nearly two weeks old they are rather big to kill and eat. In fact, their eyes will soon open then they really get active.

Once the babies' eyes open, be very very careful picking them up. They are called hoppers at this stage for a reason. They are skittish, jump easily and don't realize what dangers height presents...so they can easily jump out of your hands and fall to the ground. Best to handle carefully low to the cage floor, or just let them explore your hands. At this age they will also start to sample solid food so you can get them used to being hand fed small treats this way too.

Once they are eating solid food at about 4 weeks, you can separate the males from the females. By 5 weeks the males must be separate, or you risk having the mother and possibly the baby females impregnated, not to mention the other adult female.

Best time to warm your parents over mice is the cute babies
-----
PHLdyPayne