Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi whats up?? My little brother (I say little, but he's 20) got bitten by an easter brown widow yesterday. an hour after the bite he threw up for a few minutes and then felt weak and dizzy. We took him home, and gave him some benidryl (spelling??). He stopped feeling nausious, has no trouble brething, no fever, he's walking around, eatting, drinking water. How long does it take for the effects to wear off?? It has been almost 24hours since the bite, and he still isn't back up to 90 percent. He's just a little tired (from the benidryl I'm guessing though ) and weak. Anyone have experience with this?? We are in Massachusetts, and the hospitals are terrible here when it comes to and exotic animal bite. (my buddy got nailed in the face by his 9 foot burm and they made us wait 6 hours in the waiting room until they asked if it was poisonous) so we decided that it was best NOT to go toi the hospital. My biggest fear with going to the doctors was that they would give him anto venon for a black widoe, L. mactans, not L. geo, and the wrong antivenon would make him 100 times sicker then what he was...............not to mention the outrageous costs. anyone who knows anyone whos been bitten or knows what to expect please email me!! viperbitex@yahoo.com thank you!

sorry for all the spelling and gramitical errors here. I'm in a rush to type all this before my boss walks by my cube =P

Hello!

Actually, it is much better that be be bitten by a brown widow than a black, as the L.geo has a much less dangerous bite than either of its eastern North American relatives L.mactans and L.variolus. Are you sure it was an L.geo though? Did you see the spider? L.geo is an introduced African species, and in our country are only found in the warm southern and western states. I've never heard of any in Massachusetts. However, you DO have a good population of Latrodectus variolus, Northern widow up there in New England. Again, did you see the spider? I can direct you to pictures that will allow you to identify the spider if you saw it.

If it was an L.variolus bite, he got off pretty lightly, as L.v. has one of the worst bites among American widows. For an average to strong Latro bite, the main symptoms wear off in 2 - 4 days, and are pretty much gone by the 7th day. Full recovery to full pre-bite strength may take several months, but you're generally out of the woods after day 4, and feeling OK-ish by day 7.

If your brother had none of the trademark muscle cramping widows usually cause, as well as none of the serious breathing and heart related symptoms, then I'd expect him to be feeling better in half a week or so.

Antivenom for widow bites is usually the last resort. It is very very effective and fast-acting, but, as you know, carries the risk of allergic reaction or "serum sickness," which is dangerous in and of itself. It's generally reserved for very serious / life-threatening bites.

In my opinion, it was probably a very mild L. variolus bite. Fortunately, despite being the second-largest American widow ( L.hesperus being the largest ), the Northern widow is the least defensive: it is less prone to biting than any of the other native species. This probably accounts for the mildness of the bite: the spider didn't react as defensively as a southern or western widow would have, and thus injected less venom. Spiders have complete control over how much venom they inject, and they can choose to give larger or smaller doses depending on how threatened they feel, and how defensive they are as a species.

So, I hope this information was useful to you! Sorry it's a few days after the fact. I hadn't checked the forums here in a little while.

Sincerely,
Venom.

>>In my opinion, it was probably a very mild L. variolus bite. Fortunately, despite being the second-largest American widow ( L.hesperus being the largest ), the Northern widow is the least defensive: it is less prone to biting than any of the other native species. This probably accounts for the mildness of the bite: the spider didn't react as defensively as a southern or western widow would have, and thus injected less venom. Spiders have complete control over how much venom they inject, and they can choose to give larger or smaller doses depending on how threatened they feel, and how defensive they are as a species.
>>

And that is all assuming it was even a widow involved. People react differently to spider bites and most don't realize that any spider can cause a serious reaction in them.. not just widows and recluses.
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Wyvern

The Invert Collection:
* (1) Aphonopelma anax - Texas Tan
* (4) Avicularia geroldi - Brazilian Blue Pink-toe
* (1) Brachypelma auratum - Mexican Flameknee
* (1) Brachypelma emilia - Mexican Red-leg
* (1) Brachypelma smithi - Mexican Red-knee
* (1) Cyclosternum fasciatum - Costa Rican Tiger Rump
* (3) Grammostola pulchra - Brazilian Black

Yes, the non-specific symptoms of nausea and weakness could possibly result from other species besides latros, and I took that into consideration, but he seemed pretty certain it was a widow of some sort, and his knowledge of serum sickness, antivenom protocol suggested to me he knew more than most people about invert envenomations.

I did ask him if he saw the invert though, with the thought that it might have been a species other than a Latro. Cheiracanthium could produce the nausea, but with a bite as severe as this one, there would be a fever also--and noticeable local symptoms of the cytotoxin. Neither of those were mentioned--fever he specifically said was not a factor--so I had to rule out Cheiracanthium. Allergic reactions aside, there are only so many species in Massachusetts that can cause virulent symptoms in humans. Anaphylactic shock would have produced constriction of the windpipe, stong local redness, and probably fever as well---but a widow bite would not.

Anywho, I emailed my response to the guy, and he replied that yes, he did actually see the spider. He works with a wildlife importing firm, ( bringing in fish..from Africa ), and the brown widows hitch-hike on the shipments. So it wasn't the variolus I thought it would be if it were a native spider ( I didn't think it was likely for there to actually be an L. geo in Massachusetts ), but the culprit did turn out to be a widow at least.

>>Yes, the non-specific symptoms of nausea and weakness could possibly result from other species besides latros, and I took that into consideration, but he seemed pretty certain it was a widow of some sort, and his knowledge of serum sickness, antivenom protocol suggested to me he knew more than most people about invert envenomations.
>>

I just thought it odd that there were no muscle spasms/cramps associated with the bite as is the norm with widows. I had a coworker a few years back who manged to get bit by a male variolus widow (on walkabout looking for a female)..she suffered painful cramps in her leg several hours after getting bit on the ankle when she slapped at her pants thinking it was an ant crawling up.
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Wyvern

The Invert Collection:
* (1) Aphonopelma anax - Texas Tan
* (4) Avicularia geroldi - Brazilian Blue Pink-toe
* (1) Brachypelma auratum - Mexican Flameknee
* (1) Brachypelma emilia - Mexican Red-leg
* (1) Brachypelma smithi - Mexican Red-knee
* (1) Cyclosternum fasciatum - Costa Rican Tiger Rump
* (3) Grammostola pulchra - Brazilian Black

So some of the stuff on the Web about brown widow bites not really being dangerous is bunk?