Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello all,
I was outside tonight rounding up some dandelions for my box turtles (I usually do this much earlier) when I noticed a large catterpiller on one of the leaves, being somewhat interested in most insects I looked around for more. Anyhow, it seems my yard is loaded with these guys! I found about a dozen in roughly 2 square feet! These critters were mainly feeding on chickweed.
Anyhow I did a quick google search and found they looked almost identical to Hyles lineata but without the 'horn'? Does this sound familiar to anyone? I'm live in the pacific northwest.
I will try to get a picture by tomorrow,
Thanks,
Renee

Forgot to mention-
The largest of the caterpillers is 2"long, and they coil up if you pick them up, strangely they look like the slugs I was finding when they coil up, maybe the slugs are distasteful?
Also, there seemed to be no shortage of websites with moth photos, but very few with caterpillers? Is there any good ones out there?
thanks again,
Renee

Hi Renee,

A pic would help but in the meantime... there are hornworms without horns. However, hornworms in general (though some might)do not curl up they usually just "freeze" and sometimes thrash their head to deter a predator (you . Army and cutworms are known for the c-curl and they are very destructive. Here are some great sites for Sphingids (hornworms) and caterpillar i.d. in general.
www3.islandtelecom.com/~oehlkew/catanim.htm
www.silkmoths.bizland.com/usatable.htm
www.whatsthiscaterpillar.co.uk/america/index.htm

this is cats of Eastern Forest but we have many that are the same or same family. this link goes directly to the hornworms but you can look at others as well.
www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/2000/cateast/hornworm.htm

When you do a google search do you use the Images tab rather then Web tab.

lele

here's a google image search for cutworms. If you determine that's what they are I would suggest killing everyone you find - but be sure first
Link

Hey, I'm with Lele on this one. Kill army and cut worms with impunity. Same goes for tent caterpillars, webworms and gypsies! I love sphingids! I just can't kill hornworms unless I just have to. If they turn out to be hornless sphinxes, I sure want some pupae.
By the way, Lele, Hyles larvae do not rear up and freeze in the typical sphinx position. Instead, these curl into a "J" and spit all over your fingers or whip wildly side to side and still spit. Yucky yes, but after all, it's just masticated plant matter.

Thanks Lele and Prairie Dancer,

I think they are cutworms of some sort from looking though the photos, that and the moths that I've been finding look like the "variagated" type of cutworm moth. How destuctive are these critters? (out of curiousity)

I'll try to get a pic up soon, I just moved recently and haven't located my camera yet,
Thanks again,
Renee

One more question...

Do either of you know if these caterpillers produce any toxin?
I was thinking if I'm planning to get rid of them anyways, maybe my box turtles would enjoy a few. I tryed searching the net for that one, but there was too many sites listing 'toxins' to kill them, I couldn't figure out how to refine my search

On another note, 5 of 6 hornworm moths emerged last night!! I bought them as eggs a couple months ago, they're so much more impressive looking in person than in photos!

Hey, just what kind of hornworms were those whose eggs you bought, anyway? Are you going to try to breed the moths for more progeny?

The eggs were just regular old tobacco hornworm eggs, the first ones I've raised up though

I'm hoping they'll lay eggs, I caught 2 of them breeding tonight...

Cool, Renee! I love any and all hornworms, including tobaccos. I plan on getting some eggs myself. Just curious where you got yurs. I'm looking at a place in Arizona.

I got mine from a insect supplier in Ontario (I'm in BC). I think it's probably a lot easier to get them in the states then up here though...

I fully agree, Renee. I did not know you were outside of the US. Yes, it's bad enough to just go through the red tape to get native, non-invasive or destructive insects across our state lines within the US. Still, since you are rearing tobacco hornworms in captivity, you should have much of a year-round crop. Tell us all about their fertility and amounts of eggs as I am just as curious myself, to know captive breeding productivity.
Yes, I hope you fed the cutworms to your turtle. No, they are not toxic. If you need winter-time food for your little Manducas, check the thread below where I had posted needing some. I also plan to produce Manducas in the off-season.

I think my turtles appreciated the decision to feed them cutworms! went over very well with them, a bit gruesome though.

I caught 2 of the hornworms mating early yesterday morning, unfortunately I found the male dead this morning
For some reason he coulnd't seem to coil his probosis the first day he was out(?) I don't know if he was able to feed with it...
There was a few eggs laid last night, maybe 10 or so, but I'll write an update in a few days. These moths were raised up entirely on pre-made food, I'm hoping the next generation will as well (if there is one). I plan to plant a bit of tobacco in the spring, maybe a few other plants to attract native sphinx moths, does that work usually? (IF you plant it they will come )

Renee, if you have these Manducas up there in Canada, you should have no problem drawing them in with regular tobacco. Like tomatoes, tobacco is a pungent plant and the nightshade sphinxes will find it. The prolific flowers are also food for the adult moths. In fact, you can actually be doing neighboring gardeners a big favor by providing food/habitat for hornworms, drawing them away from others' tomato or pepper plants.
I'm going to be experimenting with not only artificial feed for hornworms, but want to look at reconstituted dried [not cured] tobacco leaves. This is at least more natural. I still can't see why formalin or formaldehyde has to be an ingredient of artificial feed. Maybe to emulate the toxins in most nightshades? It still just does not seem healthy. Still, it doesn't seem to bother the hornworms.
Yes indeed, for the most part, if you plant it, they will come. All over Texas to central Oklahoma, this has been a good year for the beautiful tersa sphinx to get on everyone's Pentas. I never had Pentas, so I never had any of these sphinxes. I've got wild grape and Va. creeper near my yard, so I want to get some Eumorphas from breeders to rear in captivity and maybe even release a few. These are some of the most beautiful sphinxes, too.

PD - thanks for that bit of info on the H. lineata re: not rearing and doing the drop and curl - I didn't know that.

Renee - I have a veiled chameleon and there was a recent thread on the subject of feeding these (cut/armyworms) to herps and apparently the poster's cham quite enjoyed them

later, ladies....

lele

PD - by the way, if I have not responded to an email let me know. I have fallen behind on many things these last few weeks

Well, Lele, anytime someone here mentions hornworms or silk moths, that's my cue! I am really glad to know that not everyone destroys these marvelous creatures. Yes, Hyles are a little more hyper than Manducas. They are more prone to wiggle and spit when picked up and react more to just being touched.
No, I haven't had any recent replies to my e-mails sent to you. I had asked about the other saturniids, too.