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Well, not the most succesful attemp but I still ended up with around 40 eggs from one female.

5 of 6 moths emerged (1 male, 4 females), the male mated with 1 female and then died shortly after. The remaining 3 unmated females have been waiting patiently for the last male to emerge, unfortunatly I think they may not make it to see him out, as he's about 2 weeks behind the others... I left the window near them open a crack, hoping if there are wild ones out there, one might make his way in, its a long shot I'm sure...

As for the cutworms, the turtles love them! I went out about 1am last night and raked the lawn, probably pulled in a thousand of the buggers, pretty disturbing sight! still haven't found my camera but if I do, I'll send a pic. The cutworms are now residing in my crisper. I think there is still more than I could ever use, is there a humane way I can kill them? (and not too disgusting?)

Hi Renee,

Good work! Are you going to raise the progeny or put them out? As for a wild one to show up it is actually very possible but it may happen when you're not looking - at night - so if any of them lay eggs you might want to keep them to se if they are fertile or not. If you don't want ot raise them just put them outside (preferably in your veggie garden with lots of tomato plants!

Hope you don't use any chemicals, synthetic fertilizer or pesticides on your lawn because the armyworms feed on the grass they can build up quite a pesticide load. If you don't use anything then feed your turtle with abanadon!

lele

that last woed was abandon ;-/

Spell check, huh? What's a woed? LOL!

I plan to raise the progeny, I don't really have much of a garden to release them too, My yard at the moment consists mainly of dandelion and chickweed with small pockets of wild grasses I think the yard has had maybe 5 years of neglect (I just moved in so it's not my fault!) from the look of it I'm pretty sure no one took the time to apply pestacides...
I'm planning to dig up the whole thing next weekend, at least get it ready for some tomato and other goods 'hosts'.

Renee, you should feed those hawkmoths. I know that just one part common table sugar and 4 parts water [pure water] works well for hummingbirds and from what I can gather talking to some entomologists, it should work well for leps, too.
This will sustain them and you can keep the females in a mesh cage during the night and they will call with their pheromones. It would be wonderful to bring out a wild male carolina sphinx! I sure hope there just are some still flying this time of year in Canada!
Anyway, you are now still 40 hornworms richer than you were before the moths emerged. Good luck!

I did put food in for the hawkmoths, roughly a couple tbsp's in about a cup of water (had a lid with holes drilled in as well). I never saw them drink from it though
Do you know what the typical lifespan is for a moth thats eating?

I'm not realy sure if there are native carolina's here, I found one reference a long while ago, but haven't been able to find the website recently... the weather isn't too bad here yet, I'm on the west coast, winter is only bad for about one month of the year, even then it rarely snows...

Just looked at the eggs a minute ago, and 2 have hatched. yay!

It's hard to tell just how far the Carolina ranges. It's only so-called due to the fact it is very common in the Carolinas and wherever tobacco is grown. It is also by far, more common than its cousin, the tomato hornworm or 5-spotted hawkmoth. Carolinas are very common in Colorado and no doubt Idaho for all the POTATOES.
Your other eggs should hatch soon. I forgot to say before, but sphinx eggs only take 3-4 days to hatch in warmer temps. Saturniid eggs take 3x that long. Keep us informed.

Hi Ladies,

I feel like we have our own little Saturnid and Sphingid group going here. What is cool is that we cover the country well: NH, OK and PNW

I am currently in the process of writing the story of my dear little Toby (crippled sphinx) for an article/essay for a class and as the intro to my hope-to-be-published-one-day book on lep rearing. I think I have the pictures of Toby scanned into my computer and I will post them later. So....
As for food, here is the recipe that was given to me by my "experts" five years ago when I was hand-feeding Toby:

"ten % sugar water solution (fruit sugar from health food store is best, then brown, then white sugar). Mix in some honey. Make small batches at a time, five teaspoons water, half-teaspoon sugar, quarter teaspoon honey. Hot water dissolves sugar and honey quickly but always allow solution to cool to room temp before feeding. Make a fresh batch each time as fermented honey/sugar may cause problems for moth."

If you find you need to force feed, which I doubt since they are healthy but if they do not have room to extend their proboscis you may need to. Keep in mind that it is up to 2.5x the length of their body! They hover in order to feed and if they cannot do that in the cage, they will not be able to. But if you do here is how:

"Hold moth thorax securely between thumb and index finger of one hand and use a pin or needle to uncoil the proboscis into the solution (a jar lid or bottle cap) allowing moth legs to rest on container. Many times you can remove the pin or needle and the moth will leave the proboscis in the solution or withdraw it and then quickly reinsert on its own. Five minutes once a day will greatly increase life span.” (that last part was in reference to my crippled Toby)

I know I gave this site to PD but not sure if you saw it. It used to be a members-only but Bill Oehlke (my moth mentor who, btw, was just visiting last week! I have known him “cyberly” – hah! new word! - for years and finally met face to face)) but someone else has agreed to maintain it and it is now free. His complete Saturniidae site is still a members-only but he has one for non-members, too.

Here are links:
Sphingids of the Americas www.silkmoths.bizland.com/samplessphinx.htm

The Manduca Project (you may know of this one) insected.arizona.edu/manduca/manual.html

He has state by state listings AND nation so you can click on Canada and then BC
Bill’s non-member Saturniidae site: www3.islandtelecom.com/~oehlkew/

lele

Well, thank you, Lele. Maybe I had just overlooked the feeding formula [for adult moths] before. I have researched the larva feed formula, but it is so costly to make, it is best if I just buy it ready made from the Manduca Project people. They are going to be supplying my hatching eggs as soon as I am ready for them. It's not enough to just rear some 200 caterpillars to adults, but I want to successfully breed the adult moths and get continued increased numbers of generations, whereby I, in turn, can sell sphinx eggs to local schools for classroom projects as well as to other hobbyists and lep enthusiasts.
In due time, I hope to replace all of the fake feed with the real thing....tobacco leaves grown outdoors as well as in a greenhouse.....for a year-round supply. Yes, I had thought that what was good for hummingbirds [I never use red dye] was also sufficient for the moths. I was shocked when a hummingbird expert told me to avoid the organic raw sugar because its iron and minerals were actually harmful to the birds! So much for the stuff we hear about colloidal minerals, huh? Too bad federal laws prohibit the captivity of real hummingbirds, lest I experiment with the two formulae in an aviary to see which really is healthier fro the birds.
Yes, I am very interested in the results of your experiments with handfeeding moths and perhaps even butterflies. Any future books we all can come up with on rearing leps will be invaluable as to educating the public about the benefits of these insects.

Hey,
Ive got a question, you guys talk about feeding them, but how do you feed them? Do you soak a cotton ball in the formula and put it in the moths cage? How do the moths know to drink from the cotton ball?

Thanks,
Andrew

Hi Andrew,

If you are talking specifically about hornworm/sphinx moths it can be tricky. The sphingids in genreal have very long "tongues" - can be over 2x the length of their body, therefore they have to hover (like hummingbirds). They are also very strong and fast flyers so they will not be content for long in a cage setup unless it is large. So if you have a sphinx moth in a screen cage of at least 2x2x2 better if 2x2x4 (obviously you could have more than one in a cage) and set it up with fresh flowers. The cotton/nectar works well for butterflies because the "taste" with their feet so once they are on the soaked tissue they are stimulated to feed. The moths however use scent and sight - also keep in mind that they feed at night.

hope this helps...

lele

>>Hey,
>>Ive got a question, you guys talk about feeding them, but how do you feed them? Do you soak a cotton ball in the formula and put it in the moths cage? How do the moths know to drink from the cotton ball?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>Andrew

Thanks for the info. Im starting to get more into the hobby of keeping butterflys and moths, and after reading some stuff about getting wildcaught female butterflys to lay eggs in captivity, I thought id try it. I went out today and found a nice female buckeye butterfly, and brought her home. I have her in a ten gallon tank with a screen lid, some snapdragons, and I have some heat lamps on her(not directly on the cage, of course). I just want to make sure that she will be able to find the cotton ball on the tray at the bottom of the cage to drink from it. Should the tray be glued to the side of the cage so she can get to it easier?

Thanks,
Andrew

Hi - try to mimic the natural temps and light of outside.Make sure she has an area to get out of the heat, too. You can gently hold her wings together near her thorax. Don't worry about rubbing off a few scales - it will not harm her or affect her ability to fly. Place her on the soaked tissue (make sure you use uncolored and unscented tissue or cotton! you want it as natural as possible) and since bf's "taste" with their feet she will (should) uncoil her proboscis to feed - it's not anywhere near the length of the sphinx moths. For the homemade nectar use 1 teaspoon sugar per cup of distilled or boiled bottled water (again - no impurities).

As for real plants, butterflies need broad headed plants to land on - or others with a "landing platform"- so the snaps probably won't work since she will not be able to readily get her tongue in there (bees typically pollinate snaps and other flowers that are similarly "built"unless you have it in there for host plant. Good butterfly (nectaring) plants are: lantana, zinnia, black-eyed susan, milkweed, cone flower, queen anne's lace, sunflower - you get the picture

There is a book called the Family Butterfly Book by Rick Mikula that I recommend - it is a great reference. I totally disagree with his condoning the practice of marketing and selling butterflies for weddings, etc. but other than that it is an excellent book and not expensive.

As for egg laying. Lepidoptera will lay eggs whether they mate or not so you might end up with infertile eggs. If you can, put a male in with her and watch for mating. According to Mikula's book Buckeyes are in egg stage for 5 days, so if yours last much longer than that they probably aren't fertile.

Let me know if I can be of any more help. Have fun!

lele
Family Butterfly Book

Thanks for all the info! I placed her on the cotton ball, and she is staying on there, although it doesnt look like she is feeding. I have a butterfly book called "The Complete Guide To Butterfly Gardening Identification and Behavior" by Donald & Lillian Stokes & Ernest Williams. Its a pretty good book, but I ill get that other one too.
Ill see if I can find a male for her. How soon will she be laying eggs? The snapdragon is in there as a host plant. Ill get another more broad leafed plant in there for her.

Thanks,
Andrew

I know my moths better then bf's but I am sure that once she has mated the eggs will come as soon as she can locate a host plant (the weed, plantain, is a host plant, too. Check out this site www.nhm.ac.uk/entomology/hostplants/

With wild silk moths, if they don't mate within about 3 days they will abort their eggs wherever they can. I am not sure about butterflies.

The Stokes' books are very good. I had the pleasure of attending a talk they did locally on Blue Birds - They signed one of my books

you want broad flowered plants - I am assuming you meant that
You are in Calif - right? Here is a site with CA butterflies!

lele
Link

Yes, I did mean broad flowers. And yes, I am from California lol. I noticed her when I was walking through a big field of weeds(I remember seeing lots of butterflys fluttering around here a few weeks back), I saw her flutter about 2 yards ahead of me and land again. I assume she was laying eggs, because there were no nectar flowers where she was. Should I try and get some of these in there for her?

Thanks so much for all the help,
Andrew

>> Should I try and get some of these in there for her?

*** the flowers for nectaring? That's what I meant when I listed the lantana, etc. This way she will have a choice of the homemade nectar or narural. Don't make the homemade sugar/water too thick or she will not be able to take it up thru her mouthpart

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I was talking about putting some of those weeds in there for her to lay on. I have several different types of flowers in there for her to choose from right now.

Thanks,
Andrew

I was a little confused as I was pretty sure you got the flower thing! LOL!

Sure, the more choices she has the better, just keep them fresh. My personal "rule" is to mimic nature as much as possible though even then I get some unexpected results ;-/

keep me posted!

lele