Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey,

I just got back from Palm Desert down in southern CA, and while down there I found some H. Lineata caterpillars. They are pretty cool, and 4 of the 7 that I brought back(there were hundreds of them) are already pupating. Now how would I go about breeding the moths?

Pic: http://mantids.fotopic.net/p13104397.html

Thanks,
Andrew

You need to copy & paste the link to see the pic.

Hi Andrew - I love these moths. They are one of the most handsome of the Sphingids! Did you set up a pupation chamber with soil for them to pupate in? It's pretty cool to do so you can watch the whole process. Take an empty, clean 2 liter soda bottle and cut off the top 1/3. Place an unopened can of soda/beer in the bottom part of bottle then fill with clean, barely moist soil so it falls around the can. Tamp it lightly so as not to pack it but to give it some tunneling form. Once you know one is ready to pupate place it in the container and it will dig its way down and pupate. The cool thing is that there is enough soil for it to pupate but it will be b/t the plastic and the can so you can watch it pupate and later emerge from the soil in prep to eclose. There is a site with pics and directions but I cannot find it rigth now. Remember to have a stick available for it to climb and dry its wings.

If you have others that have pupated you can place them on some clean, barely moist soil in a little plastic container and put in the crisper section of the fridge checking on it occasionally to make sure no mold has grown. Then bring it out when it would normally fly in your area (WA right?). Actually, you might be able to skip the fridge or do it for a short time. I have a friend in Seattle and she said that spring has sprung! lol!

here is some info for you:
Link

Andrew, I have inquired of everyone I know in California and they either won't go back to the desert anytime soon, have no lineata cats at all near them, or just are way too busy to collect me a bucketful. Well, I don't need a bucketful, but from their description, it would not take more than maybe 1 hour to fill a 5-gal pail with them, using a broom and dust pan. No kidding, they were so thick in places, they caused traffic hazards.
Now you actually go there and fetch 7 lineata cats! It's a little too soon for wild lineatas here, but their food plants patch up my yard pretty good. Do what Lele suggests and put the first pupae in the fridge after they form. This way, you can synchronize their eclosion. The females are the ones who call in their mates. Don't release any moths if lineatas are not there already. It's never good to throw nature out of balance, but maybe you will be okay as lineatas are pretty much a coast to coast species.
Place the mated female in a paper sack and she will lay her eggs. You may need to feed her. lele has had some experience hand-feeding a sphinx moth. I suggest building a flight cage large enough to place in some nectaring plants as well as something known to host lineata cats. Lineatas [larvae] have one of the most diverse diets of any sphinx I know of.
Keep us posted on your progress. I hope you get plenty of ova. Hornworms are fun to rear.

Hi,

I have 2 pupae so far, and it looks like ill have 2 more in a day or two. Ive never seen hornworm cats of any kind in my area, but I dont plan on releasing these moths until I get a good amount of ova from them. If anyone here is interested in some ova or caterpillars once I have some, I would be willing to trade for other species.

Also, 2 of the cats just suddenly "deflated" and died, what could have caused this? They were very healthy when I found them.

Is there any way to sex this species in pupa form?

Thanks,
Andrew

P.S. Is this species known to eat willow?

I don't know if lineatas will eat willow or not, but it will certainly not hurt to try it. Unlike the majority of sphingids by far, lineatas are quite diverse in their selection of food plants.
The dead cats could have either had parsites or a viral/bacterial disease. Sphinx are generally far less susceptible to disease than saturniids, but stuff can and will still happen. Just don't let the dead ones infect the others.
I have no way of knowing the sex of the pupae, though I'm told it is possible. I just don't have the kind of experience as I rarely have more than just one pupa at a time.

I trhink I linked this site before - but maybe not...scroll down to eggs, larvae, etc. and you will see the host plant list
Sphinx

Thanks for the link, lele. I think I can identify the sexes of the pupae. I have one pupa that is half the size of the other two, so I am thinking it is a male. Will keep you updated.

Thanks,
Andrew

yes, weight and size are usually a good gauge (but not always). Here is a site showing the m/f pupae of Manduca sexta, which are closely related. Not sure if it is the exact same but it may give you something to go on
sexing pupae

Hi,
Thanks lele, that method of sexing does indeed work for this species. All of my cats have finished pupating and it looks like I have 4 females and 1 male, so I should have tons of ova and little caterpillars soon. Let me know if you guys want any.
Ill let you know when they hatch.

Thanks,
Andrew

Andrew, please e-mail me at sun_dog63@yahoo. I am very interested in some of the ova.

Andrew, that is good to know. I thought it might be similar for other sphinx but good to know that it works! When I read the Lep Society's Journal and how to determine gender by the genitalia of a dissected larvae I cringe!!! I have always been willing to wait and see or try by weight or other factors. I number them and keep record and see if I am correct or not!

yes, I would deintely be interested in some ova!! Since I am in NH I will take the latest possible deposition so that they have enough food here to eat!

my email is: leleishka@netscape.net

yippee! I feel like we have a little family gathering going on here!!!

lele, I can also give you a few of my lineata pupae as I get some. This way, if there's not enough vegetation around to feed out that many cats, you could always diapause them in the fridge. Baby hatchlings of this species are surprisingly small, compared to Manducas. Full-grown, 5th instars are every bit as big as any regular Manduca, but the lineata ova are smaller and the moth contains a lot more of them. My pupae will be from wild, Oklahoma stock.

OK, I will let you all know when I have the ova available.

Thanks,
Andrew

How long do I need to wait before mating the female? Or can I just keep the male with the females and let them mate when they are ready?

Thanks,
Andrew

moths are pretty much ready to mate as soon as their wings are dry. You can put them together and let them do their thing Keep in mind that the male has claspers which grab the females ovipositer and it makes their life easier if they can hang vertically. So a narrow branch, screening with large enough openings (1/4" - 1/2" hardware cloth is great) so they can be abdomen to abdomen.

keep us posted! I want eggs!

Thanks for the info. Ill definately let you know when they lay eggs!

Thanks,
Andrew