Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi, I found a cacoon made from oak leaves about 1 month ago after a hurricane, thought I would keep it untill it HATCHED to show my son. I thought it had been too long, so I went to open it up and whatever is inside woke up and started to move around quite activaly. ( definetly has wings) so I did not open it. is what ever is inside be able to get it self out, or have I interfered with it somehow by removing it from outside so it cant get out on its own? what do I do with it?

Hi,
where do you live? Any chance of posting a photo? When you say "cocoon" is there silk involved in holding it together?

As for keeping it, we first must figure out what it is and frankly, I do not know of adult moths (or butterflies) that winter over inside leaves. Those that do winter over as adults usually find a place to hide and be safe. A photo would be great. What color? how big? "fur" (scales) as on a moth or butterfly? You may have found another type of insect altogether.

The general advice I can give would be to expose it to as much natural temps and day length as possible.

Please post back, I am curious to figure this one out!

lele

I have taken a picture but I do not know how to post it. cacoon is about 2 1/4 inches long and a little bigger around than my thumb and made out of oak leaves. kinda constructed like a hand rolled cigar. what ever is inside is pretty heavy, big and active when i move cacoon.i am in central east florida.i started wetting it thinking it would normally break down from weather outside possibly aiding in its desentigration

Photo - if you already have one in the forum gallery you should be able to post it in the body of a message. Once you upload it then you can scroll all the way down (in a post) and you will see "Select Image from Photo Gallery" click on the arrow and choose your photo.

There are a number of moths that feed on oak and make their cocoon by wrapping themselves in it. Polyphemus moths for one. Would have to look for some specifics in your area (I live in NH).

Be careful with wetting as you could produce mold which will kill it. Moths secrete a fluid to break down the silk to get out. If you saw wings then it is possible that it is trapped inside. This can happen for a number of reasons. If you think this is the case, then carefully open it and prompt it out onto a stick so it can unfurl its wings, though the wings might be permanently damaged.

Can you tell the main color of it? Promethea fly in your area, but their cocoons are usually dangling from a tree looking like a leaf. Then there are luna, polyphemus and cecropia as well. If I get a chance I will upload some cocoons photos.

lele

gallery

hopefully this photo comes though. I havent seen insect inside of cacoon. i did not open it up. it just moves like it has wings. it seems very healthy by the way it moves around inside making me think it is mature enough to be out. now i am realy curius about it.i just hope i havent messed up its chances of getting cacoon open on its own.

Sorry, misunderstood. I thought you had actually opened it. From your photo I would say it is a luna or polyphemus moth. the racket it is making I would lean toward a luna - they are very noisy when trying to emerge. They have a little "hook" on the top of the wing and use it and their heads (like a battering ram!) along with the fluid I mentioned to work their way out. I have always found the poly's to be quiet - suddenly they are just there!

OK - here are some tips and facts:

1 - you can probably determine which end it is coming out due to dampness (though you watering may have disguised this) and one end is softer. Hold it b/t your thumb and index finger length wise and gently apply pressure. One side will have more give - sort of like feeling for a ripe cantaloupe!

2 - - The wings are very crumpled up inside so that would not be what is causing the noise. The pupa is very good at thrashing its body around on the firm inside walls. The way it was moving around may have been due to you disturbing it. In nature it would do that to scare off a would-be predator. If it has settled back down and you get no motion unless disturbed then I would not do anything (except stop the water)

3 - - if/when it begins to rattle around on its own it should be out within a matter of hours. If they are reoriented before pupating (shedding last skin form the pupal, firm brown skin) they can get turned around and not be able to get out, but since you found in the wild that is unlikely. I would not worry about YOU having done anything to jeopardize its emergence.

4 - – if at some point you are concerned that it cannot get out you can VERY CAREFULLY cut along the top with small, sharp scissors (like tiny sewing scissors). I will say that it can be very tricky as you do not want to cut the moth - it would be a last resort. Their silk is amazingly strong. The brown you are looking at is actually the silk. It starts out a very clean white and then turns brown.

5 - – BE SURE TO PROVIDE IT WITH A PLACE TO CLIMB. It will climb up a branch or screen window right away and spread its wings. This is crucial! If it cannot unfurl then it cannot fly. Another way is put it in a plastic storage/sweater box and secure paper towel on the inside and it will climb up that.

6 - – BE SURE IT IS SAFE FROM BEING ATTACKED BY A CAT or young children! lol!

7 - – OK, let’s say it comes out tomorrow, climbs and has successfully unfurled its wings. Here are some facts:
a- The wild silk moths generally fly at night (some exceptions but not with a luna or poly.
b- They do not feed as adults. The have no mouthparts. They are all about reproduction. If you have a male, I would release in the evening – anytime after dusk, just make sure all the birds are in their nests
c- if it is a female, she may just stay in her place and call in a male by sending out pheromones, which the male “smells” with its antennae
d - you can tell the difference by the antennae: male like a wide feather, female’s narrower.
e- they live 5-14 days (usually more like 5 for males in the wild and 10 for females)
I am sure I have not covered anything so ask any questions. Just so you know, I have been rearing wild silk for 6 years so have a good idea of what I am talking about

How old is your son? I’ll tell you, when people find out I do this, or at a presentation I think the parents get just as (maybe more so!) excited as the kids. If you are able to watch its eclosion you will be in awe! I never tire of this process.

lele