Reptile & Amphibian Forums

hi, i'm in the uk and trying to raise some cecropia cats.. i believe they like well ventilated out doors conditions and have reputation for dying quickly if kept indoors; but its usually quite cold/wet in the uk so i have put them in the greenhouse with the door wide open and a mesh screen to keep wasps out (hopefully). they are feeding on a sprig of apple in a jar of water. although healthy looking trouble is they are not growing very fast, they are stage 2 and 3 and eating but just not growing fast like other caterpillars like actias selene or chinese oak silkmoth or hawkmoths ive raised. it is quite hot in the greenhouse but not too hot, about 30 c when the suns out and id expect very fast growth. i spray them with water every few days too. so i just want advice on these cats, and whether they sound normal. i really want to see these develop.

also, hickory horned devil cats. do these like to be kept damp? i bought some eggs which nearly all died either as eggs or hatchlings before i knew what was happening but i got 3 to survive and now spray with water twice daily and keep in a plastic tub with condensation on the sides. they seem happy enough in these conditions and drink every time they sense water on the leaf but it seems odd as moth caterpillars like it fairly dry. they are still stage 1. thanks, stupidgirl.

well to begin with I think you should change your username from stupid girl!!

OK - as for your questions. Cecropia tend to be prone to pathogens, especially viral, here in the states. They can be carriers and not show symptoms until the environment is ideal, which is high humidity so it sounds like you are are giving them prime conditions for problems. Now you did say the door is left open but I also know that the UK tends to be a bit more humid than here anyway (though I am in New England and it can get pretty darn sticky here!). I have been rearing cecropia for several years now and expect over 50% loss. If I get less, hooray for me! :-/ Giving them several hours of direct sunlight seems to be of great help. Make sure the mesh is fine because it is not just your normal size wasps you are to be worried that will eat them or take them away to leave as food for their own larvae, but the parasitic wasps and flies and be rather small so you do want a fine netting with no gaps. If you find any of your cats wandering for no apparent reason (not ready to pupate and not looking for new food) or have runny frass (poop) remove it immediately and send it to the fridge then freezer so as not to spread and disease (these symptoms are 99% guarantee of trouble).

Cecropia do grow a bit slower in their earlier instars but really take off in their 4th and 5th. Here I feed them mainly on cherry, but like apple, it is in the rose family (along with pear, peach and other fruit trees. Currently another rearer and I are also trying them on sassafras, but not sure if that even grows in UK.

You need to keep your food fresh (change daily,) look for chewed leaves (can spread disease from other insects/cat) and of course remove any spiders, assassin bugs, etc. Since you have reared others I am sure you know all of this.

The hickory horned devils...I reared them for the first time last year and lost several to viral and fungal disease. Out of 27 eggs 17 hatched, 7 pupated, 4 eclosed last summer and my remaining three (which wintered over) have yet to eclose even thought they feel quite hefty).

You do know you have a great resource over there in the AES? (Amateur Entomological Association). Even though I am in the states one of my most often referenced books is from them, the latest edition edited by Brian O.C.Gardiner. I linked below to AES, too. You may want to see if they have a forum so you can discuss with those in the UK which might be more helpful than I can be.

I know nothing about this group, but you can join and see if they are active: www.bioimages.org.uk/HTML/B148668.HTM

can you post pics of your setup? Always interested to see what people do

lele
AES

thanks for advice. gosh the cecropia are fussy; amazed they are used as a research insect at all. it is quite humid at the mo, as it keeps raining [the weathers gone nuts here] and the greenhouse flooded badly killing my melon plants and creating a plague of slugs. but it is usually very dry in the greenhouse which is maybe why they are still alive. hopefully we will get some sun again one day, im so fed up with the weather now. my set up is simple, a jar with a lid, a hole drilled in the lid and a twig of apple stuck in, all just placed open on the work bench. luckily they dont wander.

im hoping parasites dont come in, im guessing the situation behind glass will give them a little protection.

thanks for the tip on the dryness, i'll try to keep them as dry as poss in future. i was actually trying to keep it humid for them as it is so dry in there when the sun does come out. there is very little on keeping these on the internet except 'they are a 'challenge' they die indoors and they like it 'well ventilated'. nothing is mentioned about low humidity.

update. some cecropias found dying this miserable damp cold grey morning, looks like the uk weather finally won again. another reason to moan about english weather being crap

hi lele, as requested below are some links to a pic of my greenhouse cecropia setup u may be interested in pics of my caterpillar cage containing chinese oak silkmoth larvae and some crysalis of the peacock butterfly. all reared this summer.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/macuser/ghouse.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/macuser/case.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/macuser/peacock.jpg

ive moved the cecropia nearer the door for better ventilation. i raised them up on a bamboo cane as the ground is flooded now and there are ants when its dry.

I am so sorry for so long a delay! I have been wading thru caterpillar frass! Well, not quite, but it has been brutally hot here for a couple weeks (or seems like it) and will continue - very long stretch for New Hampshire - and I hate it. Makes cat tending a task rather then something to enjoy.

I looked at your photos and sorry to hear about your cecropia loss. From what you have described of the weather it probably created the right environment for a latent virus. I have had much loss again myself this year. The more dry sun the better. Only as hatchlings is dessication an issue, but I think if we were able to observe them in nature they would seek out some sun during the day.

Is your oak silk moth Antheraea pernyi? The peacock chrysalis are very pretty all clustered together like that! What is their host plant?

Must comment on UK weather. Back in 1986 (or 87) I went there for two weeks. I was there from mid/late April and got home around May 3rd or 4th. It drizzled one day and it was the only day I did any sort of a group tour and was on a bus for most of it! The rest of the time I was tooling around the countryside. Only 2 days in London then drove up East coast then Scotland (just into Edinburgh) down the Lake District, touched into Wales, thru Bath and on to Heathrow to head home. I packed for rain and saw virtually none. I had a friend who frequented Boston (US. I went to see Boston, UK - didn't knwo there was one!) and helped me plan my trip. He commented that I was probably there the 2 weeks in the entire history of Britain that had no rain! lol!!

"Is your oak silk moth Antheraea pernyi? The peacock chrysalis are very pretty all clustered together like that! What is their host plant? "

hi, yes they are pernyi. highly recommended to rear - dont they mate easily compared to other moths like actias selene and a luna. i just left a pair of a. selene together overnight last night and they didnt pair up. very annoying. they are very nervous moths and difficult to handle. the pernyi in contrast will mate anytime the male touches a female, even during the day or being handled.

the foodplant of european peacock butterfly is the common stinging nettle. most hatched ok, i released over a hundred. quite a few were deformed, ie broken antennae, probosis, or wings. a few got stuck and couldnt emerge properly, and some formed up but died before emerging. a few big diptera flies emerged from some crysalises, and a strange fungus came out of two, it was just a single white thread about 3 cm long. a whole web of life it seems depends on these butterflies.