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I took another urine sample to my vet today. One thing I noticed and she confirmed it was that the sample was more concentrate than the previous sample. There has been little change after 8 days on the baytril and amoxicillian. The white count in the urine sample was virtually the same. Next up on Monday will be a trip to my vet and another examination probably including x-rays. If things are still inconclusive then an ultrasound will be the next order of business. Boo is still eating, drinking and acting normally though his stool has softened somewhat maybe because of the meds? Another update to follow on Monday.

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Bob

Thank you for taking the time to keep us posted.

I'll be awaiting your update on Monday and hoping for the best -- that this is something that can be fixed fairly easily.

Keep the faith that he is still relatively young, you caught the change fairly fast, and medicine is very, very advanced nowadays.

It sounds like you have an excellent vet.
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Tammy
Stanley and Pookey

Aw, poor Boo, and poor mommy too. Its so worrying when you cant figure out what the problem is..Glow continues
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PHTessie

Hi,

Thanks for the update on Boo! He sure is a very handsome boy!

Yes, antibiotics can cause loose stools, in both animals and humans. This is because positive bacteria in the intestines are being destroyed.

Take care, and please continue updating us

Regards,
PHKitkat

Thanks for the update on that handsome boy! I hope you figure out what the problem is real soon! Keep us posted!
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Smile, it will make them wonder what you are up to!

Well I had to work Monday night and my wife took Boo to the vet. Sorry to say she doesn't ask as many questions as I would. What she did say and I'm hoping I get this right is that the x-rays really didn't show much. There are no kidney stones since I was leaning in that direction. My vet did say that the intestinal tract was a little enlarged with gas so she put a stop to the meds since they also were causing loose stool. She did note there was a small amount of blood in the urine sample but I don't know if she was refering to the white count as noted previously. Also she made note of the fact during the physical exam that Boo had lost some muscle mass on his head in the area above his eyes?? I don't know what that is about. Since we are still at a loss I'm making an appointment at Cornell for an ultrasound to see just what is going on if anything. In the meantime I'll have to try and get in touch with my vet to see just what she was talking about. Thanks for all of the previous advice given regarding Boo... it's all been appreciated.
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Bob

I hope you find out more (explanations) when you talk to your vet... Your vet doesn't perform ultrasounds?
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Tammy
Stanley and Pookey

No she isn't equipped to do the ultrasounds. She runs her own service and is the only vet there. I wish at times she would upgrade or obtain a partner. Fortunately for me the Cornell School of Veterinary Medicine is less than an hour away from me.. one of the premier schools in the country. One of my Shiba Inu's... Beni... is currently a patient there do to glaucoma. I have an appointment for the ultrasound at Cornell on Thursday. Hopefully I'll have an answer after the visit.
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Bob

You are indeed lucky to be able to go to Cornell for further diagnosis. Most vet colleges are on the cutting edge of pet health care and can often find causes for problems and solutions that many vets can't. Good luck!

>>No she isn't equipped to do the ultrasounds. She runs her own service and is the only vet there. I wish at times she would upgrade or obtain a partner. Fortunately for me the Cornell School of Veterinary Medicine is less than an hour away from me.. one of the premier schools in the country. One of my Shiba Inu's... Beni... is currently a patient there do to glaucoma. I have an appointment for the ultrasound at Cornell on Thursday. Hopefully I'll have an answer after the visit.
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>>Bob
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Smile, it will make them wonder what you are up to!

No she isn't equipped to do the ultrasounds. She runs her own service and is the only vet there. I wish at times she would upgrade or obtain a partner. Fortunately for me the Cornell School of Veterinary Medicine is less than an hour away from me.
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Having gone through several ultrasounds - you want the experience you'll get at Cornell that comes from frequent use. (nothing like having the tech say "What's that?!" before leaving to get someone else to re-do the exam)

Besides, it Cornell - it's like the Mayo Clinic for cats. Given Boo's ups and downs, the trip might be well worth it.

Purrs,
Elizabeth

The ultrasound at Cornell today was somewhat abnormal but also a little inconclusive. It did show liver nodules but the tech at this point didn't think they were life threatening though something to definitely be mindful of. It also showed a slight thickening of a segment of the intestine... her high normal is 2.9 and this was 3.5. All other organs including the chest cavity were normal. Coupled with the normal testing done previously they too are at somewhat of a loss as to why the drop in weight. The tech could find no good reason for blood to be present in the urine. There was also no sign of kidney stones. She did note a gassiness and loose stool present in the intestine and I told her about how the meds had affected Boo. She said it could be a connection and perhaps some of what she saw was because of friendly bacteria being flushed away with the other bacteria.
The only probable cause of Boo's problem that she could offer would be Inflammatory Bowel Disease(IBD) or intestinal lymphoma. So I think for now it's back to my vet once she gets the report from Cornell and see what route she will want to take.
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Bob

I am glad to hear nothing scary (for lack of better words).

I too am a big fan of Cornell. I used their 1-800 hotline to consult with an Oncologist before having Pookey's leg amputated due to cancer (from Rabies shot). The Oncologist spoke to me for an hour for the low cost of $35 (their consult fee). He was an expert in the field who'd dealt with cancer in thousands of cats.

Stanley has had IBD for about 2 1/2 years and fairly mild treatments have held it in check, haven't had to graduate to stronger meds yet. He's pretty much done very well on a stool softner and Hairball meds/treats. Bowel probs are common in older cats. His hit around age 13. He was badly constipated and they had to give him an enema. He was vomiting and lost weight because he was blocked... It took them a while to figure out what the cause was before they treated him. He sat at the vet for a couple days and we thought we were going to lose him before they figured out he just had to go #2. He actually went #2 with the help of an enema on my birthday and came home that day... Recovered quickly... IBD can be caused by the colon stretching, etc., not working 100% to expel stools. It is something that when caught early can be treated pretty easy before it becomes Megacolon... But, your vet will have to help decide if this is a problem.
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Tammy
Stanley and Pookey

I was doing some reading tonight and I saw where hairballs can actually cause IBD to be misdiagnosed. I talked with my vet tonight and the cause for action right now is what to do about the liver nodules. The course of action that needs to be decided is the best way to biopsy them. Two ways to do it... exploratory surgery or ultrasound guided biopsy. The ultrasound guided biopsy would be the least invasive but the problem lies in the fact that not all of the nodules may be reachable and also getting enough of a sample to be biopsied. The exploratory is far more invasive but would be more definitive as all of the nodules can be sampled and other areas of concern can be observed. It's a tough choice to make since both have their inherent problems.

I think it's great that you too were able to take advantage of Cornell's services. I have a friend that lives in PA and she too called Cornell for a consult on her Shiba Inu's allergies and skin condition. Even in the waiting room today I heard someone at the desk say they were from PA and they were having there dog examined there.
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Bob

Biopsy is a tough choice. Anytime you open up an older cat (or any cat) it is scary. I thought your Cornell post said the tech didn't think they were life threatening... I had a biopsy done on Pookey for his leg when we were 99.9% sure it was cancer. It was a painful surgery for him as they took a chunk out of him. But, it did conclude cancer and we took his leg not too long after (gave him a couple weeks to recover as much as he could from the biopsy first). Did your vet explain what nodules could be/mean? Is it something Boo can live with, or could it be something more serious down the road?

Ref IBD, Hairballs, bowels... The way it was explained to me is many cats start getting harder and less frequent stools as they age. You want to address it early on (as in the case of Stanley) before it becomes Megacolon... Whatever they want to attribute it to, hairballs, whatever, it is something to look into whenever your cat has problems going #2 as it causes serious problems. From getting very sick from the #2 backing up into the stomach (not sure the technical aspect or if that is exactly what happens) such as with Stanley when he couldn't go (took the vet a couple days to figure it out and he only got sick when he ate anything) to the colon not being able to work properly due to enlargement. I know people who have losts cats to this after efforts with meds, etc... Fortunately with Stanley, we caught it early and have kept it under control with stool softners and hairball remedies (treats and/or tube stuff). Pookey's stools have started coming less frequent and are harder as of a year ago, so I have him on the hairball treatment every three days, as well... Pretty common for older cats...
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Tammy
Stanley and Pookey

Tammy the radiologist at Cornell said that from her exeperience that most of what she is seeing usually is benign... I didn't add that she couldn't be 100% positive without histopathologic evaluation. My vet is concerned the nodules may be cancerous in nature hence the biopsy. My concern is this... in dogs the nodules can appear as the dog ages and with the dogs the nodules are more apt to be benign. With cat the risk is much higher that the nodules may be malignant. What bothers me the most is what is causing the nodules to appear when the liver enzymes are normal? I have to admit I am really at a loss but a decision has to made one way or another. Regarding Boo's stool... they were normal up until the meds were prescribed. Baytril and Amoxicillian. I know the amoxicillian can cause loose stool and almost over night Boo's had changed. Now he has been off of them since Monday night and they are still very runny. I would think after 5 days it should have run it's course out of his system? Does anyone know if feeding plain yogurt is good for a cat to try and help the friendly bacteria to grow? Someone posted that on another forum.
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Bob

Regarding Boo's stool... they were normal up until the meds were prescribed. Baytril and Amoxicillian. I know the amoxicillian can cause loose stool and almost over night Boo's had changed. Now he has been off of them since Monday night and they are still very runny. I would think after 5 days it should have run it's course out of his system? Does anyone know if feeding plain yogurt is good for a cat to try and help the friendly bacteria to grow?
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In humans - Large doses of antibiotics can occasionally cause the GI tract to be upset for weeks or months. I don't really see why it would be different in cats. KitKat is a vet tech who has seen lots, which is why I flagged your question. You might also want to post on the holistic vet board.

Keep us posted on Boo!

Ref the runny stools. I would give a quick call to your vet's office on this. Mine usually calls me back same day on something of this nature (aka., they've recently seen the cat and something isn't 100%).

Ref the nodules. If I trust my vet, and I do trust my vet, I generally go with what they advise. But if my vet were unsure, I would have a much tougher time. If your vet is fairly positive that it could be cancerous -- has the vet advised what the treatment would be if it were?

Meaning, if you are opening up just to see what it is, but there really isn't an aggressive treatement, then what is the point? But, if the vet thinks it could be cancerous and if they say removing chunks of the liver can cure -- that the liver can regenerate itslef, and give Boo a great chance of survival, that puts a new spin on it...

Let me give you a personal example. Pookey was cut and dry with his biopsy and amputation. Vet and Cornell both thought cancer was from Rabies shot, and the biopsy proved it was. Both said he would die without surgery and he had an excellent chance of survival with amputation, and he did -- almost three years now.

But, I faced something similar in nature with Stanley last year. He stumbled one morning last February and appeared drunk and dizzy. I thought stroke. Took him immediately to the vet where they performed tests while I was at work. When I saw the vet that night, she said he had a brain swelling. Couldn't pinpoint exactly what it was without a $2-$3K MRI. However, she didn't advise it. Because, all it would show us was where/what it was, and we talked and brain surgery wasn't really an option. His age and the fact that even after surgery, the growth/swelling can come back within a year were a major factor. Why spend $3K on a biopsy that would lead to nothing. Instead, she said steroids would and were helping him. By playing with the steroids that first week, we deterimed she was likely right about a brain swelling/tumor. But, we will never know what type. Probably something common where the menengia (or whatever it is that causes menengitis) swells. He was given 4-6 months to live on steroids, or, with surgery, maybe a year and more surgery needed. I made the tough choice of trusting what she thought it was and not putting him thru surgeries. I also went online and found folks that had had the surgeries performed and they wished they hadn't. Their cats only lived a year or two after diagnosis, even with thousands of dollars in MRIs and surgeries... It wasn't the money so much as what the cats went thru. So far, the decision based on my vet and what others have gone thru has been good. He is long past 4-6 months and hits a year next month with no reoccurance on low doses of steroids. It is still there and will at some point overpower the steroids, but so far, they are holding their own...

Only you can make the decision. If it were me, the main thing I would want to know is -- If we open him up and it is cancerous, what are the odds of his surviving with surgery -- is there a pretty good chance he will? Or will biopsy and surgery maybe just prolong his life a little bit longer than if we let it go... Be sure on the next steps after the biopsy and that may help you decide which way to go... Only you know in your heart what to do with your vet's help. There is no right or wrong answer. I have lived a tense year with Stanley, but I've passed the point where he was expected to die and also the point where it would have likely come back with surgery. Didn't know the outcome going in, but talked it thru indepth with my vet and found others online that had experienced the problem...

Good luck with the decision. When you make it, don't look back with any regret, either way...
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Tammy
Stanley and Pookey

Tammy I'm setting up a visit with my vet for either tonight or Wednesday night since I have to work on Tuesday night. Much of what you have written is on my list of questions to be asked.

I have been going to my vet for 20 years and while my confidence was shaken a bit with Beni and his diagnosis she is still my vet. At this time she wouldn't know if the nodules were cancerous and has the same information I do from the radiologist but is recommending to have a biopsy done so the nodules, liver and the intestine can be looked at. As for any treatment, it depends on the biopsy and the internal observation. She had already mentioned possible chemotherapy if the results were cancerous and didn't want to treat the irritated bowels with pred since that is also a part of the chemo process... I'm fairly positive that is what she said.

My main thought process is to try to look at everything... at every angle and the course to take. I have to make the decision for Boo whether it's an ultrasound guided biopsy or exploratory surgery. I know the exploratory would provide a greater chance at observation and testing but I struggle with the thought at how he will handle the surgery. He is in relatively good health at the moment yet after surgery he may take a downward trend. My other thinking is to simply let him live out his days with a certain amount of dignity, follow up with an aggressive course of monthly checkups and possibly another ultrasound in another month or two. At any rate the decision is mine alone to make. Thanks again for the reply back.
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Bob

As usual I'm lurking on The Shiba Inu forum and saw your post. I hope your kitty gets a good report on his tests. He is beautiful.

I've had animal problems this year too.In July I lost my 21 yr.old yellow tabby cat.Dec. 26th I lost one of my horses. He was 33 yrs.9 mos. That's over 100 in human years. Thankfully all 3 Pharaohs are doing fine.

I don't know how old my cat was in human years.

Hi Winona and thanks for stopping by with some well wishes for Boo. I'm sorry to read about the loss of your cat and horse it's always difficult when the time comes. It's good to see the Pharoahs are all doing well.
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Bob