Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey All,

Well today kinda sucks... I had to put down all but four of my sick baby leos. I've been battling an unknown parasite(?) for about 5 months now, and finally decided that this wasn't fair to keep all of them going through what they were going through. Some of the babies started showing improvements, then a day or even shorter after they'd revert back to the regurgitation, and lethargy that was plauging so many of them to start off with. Four leopards seem to be getting better, and I'm still keeping up with all their treatments. I dont know why they told me to use the Sulfadimethoxine when nothing has ever been detected... I wanted to say thanks to each and everyone of you who've been there through this entire ordeal (starling (stargecko) and jag bigtime), its been a very, very tiresome one at that. Several times I asked myself, "Man, why am I doing this" the money that was involved in trying to figure out what was wrong with my babies was out of this world... Then I realized, I'm doing this because I LOVE my leos!!!!! Always will and always have... Even in times like this. But thanks for everyones help and really keep track of your leos and where you buy their food items... It could be wrong of me, but I still blame FLUKERS for all that has happened. I can't think of anything else that could've caused all this trouble. After all, the only thing these animals ever shared were their crickets... Flukers, crickets... Bum Deal. Thanks again, and take it easy...

Laters,
Richie

it is truely a bad day when you have to do something like this. can i suggest you send off one of your animals for necropsy , A&M univercity in Bryan/College Station Texas... maybe it was something undetectable when living but might be found post mordom via a necropsy, maybe by doing this you can save the rest of your animals. you can ask you vet to send them out to the college or you can youself. it is cheaper if you do it but alot more hassles if the vet does it you pay more but it generally goes very smooth... i think a complete necropsy (histopathology and biology) is right around 200 dollars and thats all testing shipping ect. and you get results back in about a week. i know 200 is alot but for piece of mind it might give you the answers you have been seeking.
good luck and again i am trul;y sorry for your losses-
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-robin struck (new married name)
Geckoheads And Geeks

I have recently heard of a problem leos can get when fed with crickets who have been fed moldy food. It was tracked to a specific supplier. Marcia McGuiness told me about it, she didn't tell me which cricket supplier it was, but apparently she had some pretty extensive testing done...and diuscovered it was due to this toxin which caused some kind of liver problem...fatty liver disease I think. I wonder if your animals had the same problem?

Changing suppliers might not be a bad idea...
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Sarah Stettler aka Starling
Sarah@stargecko.com
StarGecko.Com COMING SOON! Star Quality Leopard Geckos
Specializing in Hypotangerine Tremper Albinos

I remember reading all the info you posted as you researched crypto. I'm sorry that the outcome had to be so grim. I commend you for your hard work. You really did what you could.
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chickabowwow

3.2 leopard geckos (Rosie, Locke, Lisa, Caesar, Tommy)
and 3 eggs a' cookin'

Hi,

Thanks for the kind words... Yeah days like today do bring a heckuva gloom over, but there's always tomorrow. As far as the Necro. goes, I had one done about a month ago and nothing came back from the test... Total it was like $275, maybe a little more. I'm very, very glad that my babies are no longer suffering but at the same time, the decision to put down so many of my Pets was a heartbreaking one, to say the least. Especially when I've tried so darn hard to get them better. I'm also very, very glad that only one colony of babies and two adults came down with whatever it was... All my other animals are still in tip top shape. Thank God for that. I've still got 4 animals that were battling the same thing, and they are making improvement. I believe it had something to do with the fact that they were so much bigger then the little babies that didn't make it... I'm definitely going to check out the possibility of the crix diet as to what was happening. Thanks for bringing that up Sarah. I do appreciate all the kind words and sympathy...

Thanks,
Richie

I'm sorry the outcome wasnt better. I know you tried and you gave your babies the best life that you could have did for them. We all know that you would never do anything to harm them. Keep up the great work and patience for your other leos. Are you going to have more testing done on the others or just the ones you had to put down. This is so scary how things can happen and how it seems like we cant do anything to protect our babies. I hope everything begins to go well for you and your babies.

Good Luck
Alicia
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2 male leos: Winky HY & Lenny TangCT & 6 Female Leos: Sunshine Super tang,Starburst, & Daisy Super tang carrot tail, Serenity Tremper HY Jungle Albino, Skittle Hypo-Golden, and Banana Patternless.

Hi Alicia,

Thanks for the support, you been helping me out since day one and I really appreicate it. But yeah, I'm gonna have more testing done, I really need to find out what was going on with the ones that didn't make it. So true, it is a scary thing when you have 15 - 20 captive bred babies and 4 adults come down with something that sounds very, very Crypto-like. It does feel pretty darn helpless to say the least. It's hard to loose any animal that you've worked so hard to save, not to mention 16 of them. I really doubt that my healthy ones will come down with whatever it was, but to be safe I'm going on with more testing. Just right now, I honestly dont have all the money I need to get all the testing underway. Can't tell you how much I've already spent.... But it was worth it, every penny of it. They did live a pretty good life, but it gets to that point where you say enough is enough... I mean, some of them weren't even digesting the food before it came back out... And there was no way that I was going to let a single one of them starve to death. No way, No how... So I decided that Euthanization was the most humane way to put them out of their misery. Its a drag I tell you, but I get comfort from the fact that they are no longer suffering. I also hope no one else goes through the same thing I did.... One Episode is enough for me.... Thanks again Alicia.

Thanks,
Richie

I understand why you did what you did. I'm sure everyone on her does. You did your best, thats all that you can ask from yourself. Good luck with the rest and keep us posted.

Alicia
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2 male leos: Winky HY & Lenny TangCT & 6 Female Leos: Sunshine Super tang,Starburst, & Daisy Super tang carrot tail, Serenity Tremper HY Jungle Albino, Skittle Hypo-Golden, and Banana Patternless.

I'm so very sorry you had to go through this. There is nothing worse than watching something you care for waste away and die without knowing what is wrong or how to help.

As some of you may remember, a few years ago I lost 17 Leopard Geckos over a period of about 6 months to an "unknown" cause, and had many more that got sick. As it turned out, I had to get Dr. Frederic L. Frye (world's most renowned Reptile Pathologist) to help me with the last of 5 necropsies I had done to get to the bottom of the problem.

As it turned out, my geckos were sick and dying from Hepatic Lipidosis, or fatty liver disease, which was caused from Mycotoxic poisoning from ingesting crickets that were fed on moldy corn-based food. When cricket feed is allowed to get wet and warm, it develops a mold that produces Aflatoxins... more specifically Aspergilus flavus, or B1. This substance is poison, but does not harm the crickets. When the geckos eat the toxic crickets, over a period of time their livers begin to fail from trying to filter out the poison and they will die a slow and agonizing death.

Since many of the cricket growers are in the southern states where it is hot and humid, and they use chicken mash as feed for the crix, it is an ideal environment for mold to develop on the food. I went public on this when I was going through it, and the cricket supplier tried to sue me for making "defamatory" remarks. When I sent all the patholgy reports and documentation to his attorneys, the case was dropped.

Recently, I had a problem with bacterial infections in several of my geckos. Nothing showed up on the comventional fecal tests, but when I submitted a stool sample to a lab for a culture, it showed bacteria was the problem. Out of curiosity, I sent in about a half-dozen live crickets right out of the shipping box to the same lab, and guess what? They were LOADED with 4 strains of gram negative bacteria and 1 strain of gram positive... all of the type that would cause severe sickness in my Leos. Fortunately, they all my sick geckos repsonded very well with Baytril, and I stopped using that cricket vendor.

So now what? There MUST be a cricket supplier out there that is aware of these potentially lethal problems and gives a 'you-know-what' about the quality of the feeders they are supplying. I certainly can't afford to take crickets in for lab testing every time I get a shipment, and I don't know if there is a similar problem with mealworms. This is a very good argument for feeding your crickets fresh produce and never allowing your commercial cricket food to become wet.

Thanks for letting me 'rant'....

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Marcia McGuiness
Golden Gate Geckos
www.goldengategeckos.com