Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I came home after picking the kids up from visitation (They do always lay when mom is away) I found her hole filled in
so I dug it up gently, it was not until I picked up the food dish did I find them
all 11 of them, in the warm soil near the UTH I have had on since the dirt has been wet
I do not have vermiculite, so I just put them in the same soil they were in, but it is more wet than marcia says, but I will have something better by tomorrow night, hope they will be ok till then
they heater is keeping the box they are in at 75-80
and I have some bairly damp moss over the top

hope all is ok with them
we shall see
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Elizabeth (ecb)

Make this world a better and more beautiful place that You have been in it
*Edward W Bok*

>>I do not have vermiculite, so I just put them in the same soil they were in, but it is more wet than marcia says, but I will have something better by tomorrow night, hope they will be ok till then

The soil they were laid in is fine. I have incubated in it successfully before, you just have to make sure you keep it moist but not too much. If you leave it uncovered in the incubation box until it drys a bit it should be fine to leave it in that medium. I have never covered them with moss, just left them covered about 2/3 of the way so that some of the top is showing. By the time the have grown and are ready to hatch they are only about 1/2 buried.

>>they heater is keeping the box they are in at 75-80
>>and I have some bairly damp moss over the top

I would drop the heat a bit. I don't use any heat at all and they maintain 65-79°F with my box sitting on the floor of our finished basement. I find that you have less problems with your temps below 80°F. I think that in the cool rainforest where they enjoy temps in the upper 70's by day that the soil, being shaded, would be even cooler that the air.

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Marcia - FroggieB Dragons
www.froggieb.com/MHDHome.html

I took the heat out of the box, and have the eggs in a superworm container with the dirt they were layed in, and have that in a box to keep a draft off
I raised them off the floor by putting a food dish upside down
They are pretty dirty from being burried in mud, so I will rince them off and candle them when i get home after buying a penlight (kids wore out all my old ones)

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Elizabeth (ecb)

Make this world a better and more beautiful place that You have been in it
*Edward W Bok*

Congratulations Elizabeth. Sure hope they are fertile, and that your girl starts eating once again.

Don M.

she was hanging over the food dish looking at the wroms menicingly when I left
I put 4-5 Nightcrawlers in with the remains of the package of superworms that were digging in a half dirt half meal I had in the food dish
I have a pic of her streaching her abdomen (keep a copy Marcia if you think this is an accurate estimate of what the behavior is) the couple days before the egs came in. I really do think she was manipulating her insides by moving her outsides (as the midwives say, if you cannot turn the baby, turn the mother)
Like I said before she would move from one uncomfortable looking position to the other, with the edges of things jammed up into her abdomen, then go do this streaching thing U see in this pic

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Elizabeth (ecb)

Make this world a better and more beautiful place that You have been in it
*Edward W Bok*

That is a totally accurate picture! You really can see them straining with the contractions. (I am assuming that they have contractions)

The eggs are definitely visible in that photo too. Nice lumpy sides! I may have to snatch that one. I know that you have looked at my caresheet, I have one on it taken from above where one of my girls was just finishing up. If you look closely at that photo you can see that her tummy is smooth and round while her lower abdomen is sort of wasp waisted. She would sit and rest (at least that’s what it looked like) between eggs and when she was ready to lay the tummy tightens up and she would suck in the abdomen just in front of her hips while pushing the egg out. You really can tell that they are working quite hard. If you look you can see that the narrow part of her abdomin is concave.

I have taken a nice time lapse video of one of my females laying her clutch. There were some pretty good segments on that but since the cam isn’t a digital I can’t post it anywhere. I would love to share it but can’t afford or justify the cost of the equipment that could digitize it! In that you can see an oval where the egg is in position just before she squeezes it out.

Just think, we have one child and think we go through a lot. Here is a mom who has to go through the contortions anywhere from 8 to 20 times and then when she’s done she still isn’t done, she has to bury the eggs. And think of the headache that you could get slamming your head into the dirt like that!

Anyway, congratulations and good luck!
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Marcia - FroggieB Dragons
www.froggieb.com/MHDHome.html

Congrats....glad to hear she got all of her eggs out at once! LOL. Marcia already answered you about the incubation so all I really have to say is good luck with them. My 4 eggs are still doing just fine at 2 weeks now, and rusty is still active and eating but still lumpy. I am getting really worried about her now cause she layed 4 eggs 2 weeks ago and nothing since. I just don't know what to do with her! Anyways...lets hope they are fertile!!
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Joe
joebradbury@attbi.com
aim and yahoo messenger - UTDstud18

is she eating, and resting?
moving around?
how is her color, has it changed for the better, for the worse?
is she going in the water?
doing anything odd, or unexplainable?

Wow, did I mention that I felt one of the eggs darned near in her chest cavity?
I had a foot that high once (my first was born 10 7, and LONG), so a whole EGG would feel HORRIBLE!!!
Tell us what you can when you have time, if nothing else we can try to figure out how she is feeling

On a different note, I M now worried about how skinny she is, but she was scaring the nightcrawlers when I left to drop the kids @ school, and go to work, so I should see them gone when I get home at about 6:30 or 7

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Elizabeth (ecb)

Make this world a better and more beautiful place that You have been in it
*Edward W Bok*

Isn't that something how the eggs seem to replace everything in their chest and abdomen? Where do you suppose the organs go

Don't be too concerned about her being so thin. Just think of where her energy has been going for the last 4 months! Unlike we humans they just don't seem to put on weight when they are gravid

Some of my girls will just lay around looking exhausted for a day before they start eating again but others relish a nightcrawler as soon as they are finished. You will be surprised how soon she looks like her old self again. If the eggs are fertile and she is working on another clutch she will actually look pudgy again in 3 or 4 weeks!

I know that with the care and concern you give your animals she will be back to normal in no time!
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Marcia - FroggieB Dragons
www.froggieb.com/MHDHome.html

Rusty seems to be ok considering the situation. She is still eating lightly and active in the enclosure. I have still been massaging her and soaking her every other day just incase it might help her out. I haven't seen her in the water dish since, but that may be because I soak her a lot still. As for her color, its pretty much the same as it was before she layed any eggs, with it getting brighter when I soak her (water seems to do that to them Still nothing dropped out of her though and it has been 2 weeks now.

On a better note, the 4 eggs she did lay still look great so hopefully they won't dent and mold on me.

Good luck with your eggs, as marcia said, let us know when you candle them!
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Joe
joebradbury@attbi.com
aim and yahoo messenger - UTDstud18

I candled them with a flashlight, but I did not feel good about dipping them in water to rince them off, the water seemed very cold to me, although it was supposedly 72 degrees, I was worried about shocking the eggs to much
I also forgot to mark the tops of each egg, so I M not sure exactly the position they were in when layed (I did not know what would be safe to mark them with even) but they might be on a bit of a slant(I have tried my best not to turn them at all)
Like I said earlier, and higher up, I candeled 3 of them, and even the kids say pink or orange, none red, and none white (one looked pale orange, but we shall see)

Erowen did not eat more than one Nightcrawler, I found the rest dead in the dish (I think the superworm food dries them out to much, or the superworms eat them)
I plan to feed her out of the tank for a while, and I M even gonna get more crickets (although I do not like them feeding on her if she does not eat them)
Hey, since they have fruit flies without wings, can they make Crickets without hop?
Just a thought
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Elizabeth (ecb)

Make this world a better and more beautiful place that You have been in it
*Edward W Bok*

>>I also forgot to mark the tops of each egg, so I M not sure exactly the position they were in when layed (I did not know what would be safe to mark them with even) but they might be on a bit of a slant(I have tried my best not to turn them at all)
>>Like I said earlier, and higher up, I candeled 3 of them, and even the kids say pink or orange, none red, and none white (one looked pale orange, but we shall see)

I usually mark them with a pencil. You can use a regular pencil or maybe one of the kids colored pencils. I dip the tip in water, as it seems to mark better and just put a little dash length-wise on the egg. It won't hurt the developing baby inside and if your incubator should get tipped you will be able to put them back in the same position. I was really worried about the position too but was told that when first laid it isn't a major think as long as they are fairly much the same side up. I had one incubator that over-excited nephews overturned. The eggs were about a month old and I was sure they would never make it, they did! I also moved from Omaha NE to Chamberlain SD in late October, a 5.5 hour trip, with 5 clutches of eggs totaling 79 eggs in incubation boxes and several newly hatched babies, one clutch less than a week old. All survived the trip. I advise you not jostle them excessively but they do seem to be pretty sturdy.

>>Hey, since they have fruit flies without wings, can they make Crickets without hop?
>>Just a thought

Actually you can make the crickets non-hoppers. If you pick them up by the back leg with tweezers and pinch the back leg will fall off, or rather the cricket will fall off the leg I put the crickets I will be feeding in a tub or jar they can't jump out of and grab them by a back leg one at a time until none have either back leg. It seems a bit crewel but this way you can put them in a slick dish and they can't get out. They stay dusted better and you don't have them setting up house in your dragons viv!
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Marcia - FroggieB Dragons
www.froggieb.com/MHDHome.html

to cut off each of the back legs, but it is a pain for more than 10 or so
I guess I M lazy
the kids will NOT do it, and for the little criks it is even harder
maybe I shoudl grow Meal worms, or Superworms
no one liked the Silkworms
I cannot get Erowen to eat ANY of them, and the geckos only eat them cuz there are no crickets
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Elizabeth (ecb)

Make this world a better and more beautiful place that You have been in it
*Edward W Bok*