Reptile & Amphibian Forums

A friend of mine gave me last week end this poor baby Bearded Dragon.Well, i dont know if its a baby because i dont know how old he is.I dont think he is too young because we can already see his bulges under his tail.But he is only 31 cm (1 foot) and i think he has MBD.

Where i live (Malaysia, South East Asia)nobody has Bearded Dragon.And when i say nobody its true!So i dont think the vets here will know what to do to save him.

He does not eat by himself so im handfeeding him.He seems to like turtle pellets (Reptomin) thats the only thing he accepts.Im puting him in the sun, 8 hours a day.What else can i do?

Sorry to ask so many questions but i dont want this guy to die!

Thanks,
Flavia

My bearded is a runt too, he's almost 2 and only 14 inches.
Will your bearded eat any greens or crickets at all? I don't think reptomin is a bad diet, it just would be nice if he ate normal beardie food. To get mine to eat lettuce, I'd tickle him until he was angry and then shoved the leaves in his open mouth. It worked. He was like 'Grrr! Hey! Yummmm!'
MBD in beardeds is treated in the same way that it is in iguanas, so if your vet knows how to treat them, they hopefully should be able to do the same thing for your bearded. The sunlight is a very good thing, though, and if he's not too bad maybe he'll get better with some TLC.

hey! ive seen you in the iguana forum, although i dont have one im thinking bout getting one, and you are so knowlegdable!

anyways, your beardie looks just about 6 months or so, if she/e is only 12 inches, that looks aboiut right...i would try to get him OFF the turtle pellets, try calcium rich greens, the stuff you feed your iguanas (except avoid iceberg, spinach, and kale, iceberg has no nutritional value and spinach and kale contain calcium binding oxalants, keeping them from absorbing the calcium they need.) try crickets, lightly dusted with a calcium supplement. If it will only eat the pellets, try getting a bearded dragon pellets (im not sure if they have them in asia though) you can soak the beardie pellets in a fruit juice or something, they like that! you can also feed it crickets, silkworms, superworms ,mealworms (sparingly, high chitin), waxworms (treats, high fat).

Why do you think it has MBD? if it does, your vet can treat him the same as an iguana, with calcium injections etc. etc.

8 hrs outside a day should do it, as LONG as it is out there everyday. If not, get a UVB bulb (flourscent), although again idk if they have them where you live.

Make sure the temps are about 107 degrees Farenheit (41.66 degrees Celcius) There should also be a cooler side, about 75-80 degrees F (23-27 degrees Celcius)

im sure you already knew most of this, im rambling...lol

good luck flavia!!

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~David - KDRKreatures
1.2 Bearded dragons (Ralph, Artemis, Cheech)
1.0 Veiled Chameleon (Chiquito)

KDRKreatures-Home Page
My Email

Hi
Thanks for answering!
Your beardie is wonderful!Congratulations!
Its impossible to find bearded dragon pellets in Malaysia.Nobody here knows what is a Bearded Dragon!
I think he has MBD because of his lower jaw.Look how huge it is!If its MBD do you think his jaw will be like that forever?

i think he probably will have it forever, ive never heard of a jaw correction for a reptile like a bearded dragon, but there may be one! and if not, there is still a chance that it may grow back regular, since your dragon is only 12 inches long and has a while to go. (that is if the MBD gets fixed!)

good luck, and KEEP US POSTED !!!!
you have a great dragon, post more pics too! lol

cya!

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~David - KDRKreatures
1.2 Bearded dragons (Ralph, Artemis, Cheech)
1.0 Veiled Chameleon (Chiquito)

KDRKreatures-Home Page
My Email

There certainly looks like there is some deformality to the upper jaw (softjaw?). 8 Hours of sunlight is more than enough to ensure he produces all the D3 he needs to process calcium. (I am assuming this is outside, in unfiltered (ie no glass) sunlight). The turtle pellets should be replaced with Bearded dragon or Iquana pellets. Feed him collard greens, mustard greens, dandelion greens and other dark greens (except kale and spinach). I would still take him to a vet experienced in reptiles.

I don't think this is a baby, he has too much bone development in the head that is usually seen in adults or near adults. Pushed to guess an age I would say he is a year old

I agree he also appears to have MBD and getting some calcium in him will not correct the mouth, but should help halt the progression.

The thing that I noted most was that although he is thin and has the mouth signs of MBD, he is very bright eyed. This little guy wants to survive, you just need to guide him in doing it.

As the others said, try to get some rich greens into him, but he needs protein too which it looks like he's missed out on. If he will not take crickets or fresh shed superworms, try chicken baby food or also some vets have a product called AD Pet food or other supplements that can get him back on the right track.

IF you can, get him on calcium daily for a few weeks, then start cutting back and Vitamins and minerals 2-3 times a week for a month, then drop to twice a month

Thanks for answering my message!

You seem to know a lot about BD!

At what age BD become sexable?Because i can already see he is a boy!Perhaps if i know at what age we can sex them this will help me to know his age.

Im giving him turtle pellets (REPTOMIN) because have lots of protein.Reptomin has 39% of protein!Bearded Dragon pellets have only 24%.

Do you think REPTOMIN is bad for him?

If i force him he will eat the greens but it will take the whole morning to eat a few pieces of collard and i cant spend so much time with him because i ve to go to work. Reptomin is easier and faster!LOL! I do hope he will start to eat by himself!

hey again flavia (lol)....well i just thought of something:

1st off you can try to drop the Reptomin Turtle food slowly, and maybe add in iguana pellets. But also, i beleive (i may be wrong) but some of the US pet supply Online stores (like www.reptiledirect.com ) ship overseas, im almost positive they do! also, try to get some crickets or other insect food, maybe that will work...if you can get ahold of some Hornworms (giant green worms), they are great in starting herps to eat, but idk if you will be ableto get ahold of some

well again, good LUCK!
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~David - KDRKreatures
1.2 Bearded dragons (Ralph, Artemis, Cheech)
1.0 Veiled Chameleon (Chiquito)

KDRKreatures-Home Page
My Email

I do not know the make up of what you are feeding him, but still think you need to start getting gutloaded crickets or worms in him. A little live action may prompt him to eat on his own. And he does need the calcium and vitamins. We rescued one iguana at age 2 years that had visual signs of MBD with her mouth and good diet, calcium, vitamins and sunshine has brought her back to the point you can hardly see any MBD in her mouth area not.

Males can start desending between 4 weeks to 4 months to tell they are males, then the go through a sexual development stage between 4 months - 8 months where they get larger, kinda like the teen years

This little guy looks really alert, and his spines and bone develope tell me he is not a baby or early juvenile

So which age do you think he is?And (sorry to ask so many questions but i dont know anything about Beardies.Im an iguana person!lol!)which size you think he should be? He is 1 foot right now only.

That black spot on the tip of his tongue is it normal?

We've notice that the more they stay hydrated the tip will get a pink/white color, the dragons that seem to drink less it is darker. We have one that no matter what we do, sits around with her mouth opened and her's is darker most the time too. Yet when she drinks alot (and she does drink a lot) it starts to turn white.

So I think since his top lip has receded due to MBD, his tongue is dry more often than most and stays dark.

This is just our observations of several we have, that is not a confirmed thing in all dragons

np
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~David - KDRKreatures
1.2 Bearded dragons (Ralph, Artemis, Cheech)
1.0 Veiled Chameleon (Chiquito)

KDRKreatures-Home Page
My Email

...but it was impossible to find one in Malaysia!I asked every body, i went to all the pets shops in Kuala Lumpur.The pet shop owners didnt even know what was a Bearded Dragon.Then i posted a message in Kingsnake Asia Forum. Several months later (the Asia Forum is VERY slow!)that guy called me saying that he had a Bearded Dragon to sell if i wanted to buy.When he called me i had already changed my mind and decided i didnt want a BD anymore. My igs were becoming huge and i didnt have space to another big reptile.I read that BD can reach 3 feet, right?
After a few more weeks he sent me an e-mail saying he had a Leopard Gecko to sell if i wanted to see it.I agreeded because Leopard Geckos are small and easy to care for.
So this guy went to my house with the Leopard Gecko and the Beardie.He told me he didnt want the Beardie because it didnt eat by himself and for this reason was very difficult to care.

It's pretty gross, but I hear it works wonders. Basically blended, gutloaded feeder insects mixed with pedialyte and calcium and vitamins. Give with an eye dropper or a syringe.

I had my one year old beardie die of MBD last year. He was my first beardie and I thought I was doing everything right - WRONG! So now I know a lot about MBD so I can prevent it from happening in my other three beardies.

First, you need to get him on a proper died. Feed things that are higher in calcium than phosphorus, like collard greens, mustard greens, payapa, mango. I don't know what you have readily available to you as far as produce, but if you can make sure he's getting enough calcium and UVB from the sun, he should improve. Also, sprinkle calcium powder (phosphorus free) onto his live prey (crickets, mealworms, wax worms) and on his veggies every day until he gets better.

Have the muscle spasms and twitches started yet? If they haven't they will soon if he has MBD. Also, mouth rot (Stomatitis) will cause the mouth to deform. Check the inside of his mouth for any whitish looking crud. Make sure his gums look healthy. The inside of the mouth should be pink, not white or yellow or gray. If it's mouth rot you will need antibiotics right away or the mouth will continue to rot away.

Both of these conditions will be hard to treat, but they are treatable. Please visit my website below as I have one of the best sources of nutrition info on the web. I have dedicated many hours to it. Also, I have into on MBD and mouth rot.

Good luck and please keep us posted.

Veronica
Beautiful Dragons

I'm assuming you have limited resources for helping out your beardie in Malaysia, so I'll try to keep that in mind while writing my advice. The best thing to do would be to find a reptile vet, but as you said, those kinds of things are limited...

Basically he needs a lot of calcium and a lot of unfiltered, warm sunlight (for UVA and UVB rays so he can produce Vitamin D3 to metabolize the calcium). By unfiltered, it can't go through glass or plastic or anything like that. Make sure it's warm out when you take himi outside, but don't let him overheat in the sun (give him a shady spot where he can retreat).

When he is inside, you should get a UV light for reptiles... Reptisun 5.0 is a good choice. As for food, he needs protein and calcium. For calcium, dandelion greens, collard greens, mustard greens, etc are a good base vegetable. He might not eat them though. For protein, give him small crickets or mealworms, or other similar insects you might have in your area. He might have trouble catching them if he is sick so I suggest refrigerating the insects for a short period of time before feeding them to your dragon. This way the insects will be slower and easier to catch (but be careful not to kill the insects).

If you can get it in Malaysia, a calcium powder supplement like Rep-Cal will be extremely helpful in helping your dragon recover. Dust his crickets or greens with this so he gets extra calcium. This and sunlight, should do the trick if he has the will to live.

Of course, you need to provide the other basics of beardie care, I suggest reading up on beardie nutrition, heating, enclosures, etc.

His lip and bone structure will probably be altered for the rest of his life. However, if you start giving him the things he needs now (calcium, UV, proper nutrition and care) then he'll probably live a healthy life for quite some time. Your dragon is showing clear symptoms of MBD but, as someone else said, he looks like he has some fight in him. Good luck!

Oh yeah, here is an excellent link on MDB: Metabollic Bone Disease