Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Looking for uplifting information on FIP. I have three persians which I purchased from a very good closed cattery. I paid between $175 and $250 each for my kittens. I love kittens so I decided to allow mine to have kittens before getting them fixed. I took my cats from 8 weeks of age and had them vet checked and kept them up on all of the shots. I keep them inside only and never allow any other cats inside my home. I clean everything with a mixture of bleach/water. I clean my litter boxes regular and even replace my boxes about once a year. I feed my kittens IAMs moist from 3 weeks on and sometimes suppliment with KMR. I sold some of my kittens for $150 each no shots, no papers. I speak with each person who purchases a kitten and they all agree to get the kittens vet checked and maintain all shots. Well one woman purchased two kittens which she did not get vet checked or shots for. She allowed the kittens outside, took them to pet stores, and homes with other cats. One of the kittens fell ill and was put down due to FIP. I had tests done on the deceased kitten to determine what caused its death. The woman has since failed to get her other kitten in to see the vet. Her vet suggested I have the kittens I currently have under go a test that will cost $75 each and put down any kittens who test positive. Her vet is certain that the FIP came from the mother of the kitten. She wants me to pull these kittens away from the mother now but they cannot be placed in other homes until 8 weeks old. All of the information I have found and local vets including my own state that the test for FIP is not good. Putting down postive kittens would be wrong since any kitten with a the carnovirus would test positive to FIP. I will get all three of my cats fixed regardless of the test results. Any kittens I place I will request an agreement that the kittens be tested and vet advice be followed closely to prevent if possible anything. But how do I know for sure if my female passed this to her kittens? How do I know this poor kitten was not exposed by an outside cat at the womans house? How do I know she does not have other cats in her home that are carriers? I do not want to put down kittens that look and act so healthy? Any advice? I will never ever breed cats or dogs again. I have just cried all day. Anyone else been through this?

From what I've read, the FIP test is not conclusive because it only tests for the corona virus and has caused needless deaths of kittens with false positives. I would suggest you contact another vet, perferably one who specializes in cats. Unfortunately there is no way to know for sure what has been passed onto the kittens. The corona virus may lie dormant forever or it may evolve into FIP if the kitten is placed in a stressful enviroment.

>>Looking for uplifting information on FIP. I have three persians which I purchased from a very good closed cattery. I paid between $175 and $250 each for my kittens. I love kittens so I decided to allow mine to have kittens before getting them fixed. I took my cats from 8 weeks of age and had them vet checked and kept them up on all of the shots. I keep them inside only and never allow any other cats inside my home. I clean everything with a mixture of bleach/water. I clean my litter boxes regular and even replace my boxes about once a year. I feed my kittens IAMs moist from 3 weeks on and sometimes suppliment with KMR. I sold some of my kittens for $150 each no shots, no papers. I speak with each person who purchases a kitten and they all agree to get the kittens vet checked and maintain all shots. Well one woman purchased two kittens which she did not get vet checked or shots for. She allowed the kittens outside, took them to pet stores, and homes with other cats. One of the kittens fell ill and was put down due to FIP. I had tests done on the deceased kitten to determine what caused its death. The woman has since failed to get her other kitten in to see the vet. Her vet suggested I have the kittens I currently have under go a test that will cost $75 each and put down any kittens who test positive. Her vet is certain that the FIP came from the mother of the kitten. She wants me to pull these kittens away from the mother now but they cannot be placed in other homes until 8 weeks old. All of the information I have found and local vets including my own state that the test for FIP is not good. Putting down postive kittens would be wrong since any kitten with a the carnovirus would test positive to FIP. I will get all three of my cats fixed regardless of the test results. Any kittens I place I will request an agreement that the kittens be tested and vet advice be followed closely to prevent if possible anything. But how do I know for sure if my female passed this to her kittens? How do I know this poor kitten was not exposed by an outside cat at the womans house? How do I know she does not have other cats in her home that are carriers? I do not want to put down kittens that look and act so healthy? Any advice? I will never ever breed cats or dogs again. I have just cried all day. Anyone else been through this?
-----
Smile, it will make them wonder what you are up to!

Two years ago my cat had kittens and we gave the kittens away to family. The one I gave to my cousin started acting lithargic and sick so she had her tested. She came back positive for FIP and the prognosis was grim. The other kittens and mother seemed fine but we all had them tested as well. They all came back negative so my cousin's vet thought that her kitty's problem might NOT be FIP. So instead of immediately putting her down, he put her on antibiotics and they kept her isolated. She turned out to be fine and is still happy and healthy today! So my advice would be to get more than one opinion and find a cat vet who can really tell you what to look for if the kittens test positive since, like the last reply said, the test is not conclusive. Good Luck - I hope your kittens turn out to be healthy!

as others have said, there IS no test for FIP itself; just for the corona virus, which most humans AND cats will test positive for exposure to.

the current state of belief is that FIP is a MUTATED form of the common corona virus--they do not know what causes the mutation, tho stress has been implicated; most recently, a genetic predisposition is being investigated.

in other words, it can't be predicted, prevented or treated. if mom had the predisposition to the gene's mutating (if that's even a valid theory), then it would certainly be possible that she could have passed on that predisposition to her kittens.

with no accurate test, no real data on what triggers the mutation--any cat ever exposed to one of the corona viruses could develop FIP.

as FIP is a mutation, it is not contagious per se. i seriously question even the discussion of euthanizing the kittens--because they MIGHT get sick at some point? by that criteria, we're all in trouble.

kittens do not have well-developed immune systems and are always amongst the most vulnerable feline populations; elderly and otherwise-compromised cats are also at high risk of any illness. with FIP, however, all you can do it try to keep them from being exposed to a corona virus in the first place. it sounds as if the circumstances these kittens found themselves in--unvetted, unvaccinated, exposed to many cats and
questionable environments--could easily have put their fragile immune systems into jeopardy. even so, there is STILL no way to predict that other kittens in that same situation will develop FIP...

FIP is an awful condition, but not one that worrying about helps--we just don't know enough yet to know who will develop it or how to protect our cats from it. i know there is an FIP vaccine, but since i've seen no evidence that they really know what's really going on with it i'm not sure how it can be that effective.

wish i had more info to give you; here's a link to one site that might be able to answer questions.
-----
PHCatByte

Thank you for your response. I will be bringing the mother to a local vet (other than my own) who believes that the results from the pathology resident may not be accurate since she has seen cases of distemper appearing very much like the wet form of FIP. I WILL NOT ALLOW THESE PRECIOUS BABIES BE PUT DOWN AND HAVE BEEN LOCATING LOVING HOMES FOR THEM WITH PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTAND THEY MAY DEVELOPE FIP. THANK YOU AGAIN

>>Thank you for your response. I will be bringing the mother to a local vet (other than my own) who believes that the results from the pathology resident may not be accurate since she has seen cases of distemper appearing very much like the wet form of FIP. I WILL NOT ALLOW THESE PRECIOUS BABIES BE PUT DOWN AND HAVE BEEN LOCATING LOVING HOMES FOR THEM WITH PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTAND THEY MAY DEVELOPE FIP. THANK YOU AGAIN

interestingly enough, there is some suspicion that distemper earlier in life sets up the conditions for cat to develop FIP later--we had a momcat and 4 kittens who were exposed to distemper when the kittens were two weeks old. (well, 8 kittens were involved, only 4 survived.) long after the kittens had recovered (two with neurological damage), mom and THREE of the kittens ended up passing from FIP, over a period of 2 years. so was it mom being predisposed to FIP and passing that on to the kittens? or was it that they'd all been weakened by the distemper????

i'm glad you're seeing another vet--the reality is that re: FIV/FIP/FeLV, most vets are NOT up on the current research, unless they have obnoxious clients who force them to be. for so long, when there was so little known about these conditions, euthanasia was the only treatment considered. which, in turn, made it really difficult for research to be done! now that real work is being done, unless a vet has a particular reason to follow the constantly-changing information, they tend to stick with what they learned originally. there is just too much for them to know and learn; we can only fault the ones who CHOOSE not to learn when confronted with the opportunity to do so....

if you go to www.felineleukemia.org, there's a database of vets who are kindly-disposed toward these "F" cats! (not enough listed, but we keep adding as we go along...)

-----
PHCatByte

Hi,

There is excellent info posted here but I thought I would add a couple of things.

There is a fairly new test for FIP, a PCR test, and it's much more accurate, but it is only run if fluid is withdrawn from the chest and/or abdomen in cats suspected of having FIP. Not all cats that have FIP have fluid, but most do.

The standard FIP test is useless, and a positive result means very little. In fact, 3 years ago I adopted a cat positive for FIP, knowing that she didn't have the disease. I didn't hesitate bringing her into my multi-cat home, and she is totally healthy.

A very small number of FIP cats will test positive for the disease (with the regular blood test) but they will also have a the 2 major clinical signs of FIP. These are: persistant fever and thick fluid buildup in the chest and/or abdomen (although there is a rare,"dry" form). The only 100% way to diagnose FIP is by doing a necropsy after the cat has passed away. There are characteristic white spots (called plaques) on the organs.

I seriously doubt that the mother or her babies have FIP and am very glad that you didn't have the babies put to sleep.

Take care,
AshleyElla

i'd love any info you have on the new PCR testing, ashley! (tho it hasn't been totally succesful in FeLV or FIV, mostly, they think, for lack of experience in using that way, different lab protocols, etc--GREAT promise, tho!)

-----
PHCatByte

Hi PHCatByte,

Please check out this site for info on the PCR FIP test. Apparantly, it is most accurate when performed on whole blood:

http://www.antechdiagnostics.com/clients/antechNews/1999/1-99.htm

Regards,
AshleyElla

>>Hi PHCatByte,
>>
>>Please check out this site for info on the PCR FIP test. Apparantly, it is most accurate when performed on whole blood:
>>
>>http://www.antechdiagnostics.com/clients/antechNews/1999/1-99.htm
>>
>>Regards,
>>AshleyElla

thanks!
-----
PHCatByte

You are very welcome, CB!!

AshleyElla

I just put a cat down Monday from what is strongly suspected to be the dry form of FIP. I had never heard of this disease before this. We should get the necropsy results back soon. That will eventually confirm if FIP killed our boy, or something else did.

This is the nastiest, most awful, terrible thing I have ever seen. Our Winky lost half his body weight and control over his hind legs and one front leg in the space of a month. He just wasted away in front of our eyes, despite the care of two vets, one vet hospital, and later the best vet hospital in Northern California. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, could stop this terrible killer of cats.

The very first symptom I noticed, and what I took him to the vet for, was lethargy. By then, it was way, way, way too late. Exactly one month later I petted him softly as a needle was inserted into his arm. His pain was over a few seconds later.

From what I have read so far, and I've been reading a lot on FIP during the last two days, there's a good chance none of the kittens will get it. This is apparently genetic, which explains why some cats get FIP, and some don't. Most cats carry the corona virus which mutates into FIP. In most cats, it doesn't.

If FIP was THAT contagious, half the cat population would be dead in a month. I'm serious. This is one hell of a nasty, terrible disease. It's a death sentence for your cat. It's a death sentence for your soul.

For anyone who has lost a cat from this terrible disease, I'm feeling your pain. And it doesn't feel good.