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PLEASE READ! About "bad" crickets...

GoldenGateGeckos Oct 14, 2003 02:29 PM

Forgive the second post on this subject, but I felt it was important and worth posting in it's own thread. There is nothing worse than watching something you care for waste away and die without knowing what is wrong or how to help.

As some of you may remember, a few years ago I lost 17 Leopard Geckos over a period of about 6 months to an "unknown" cause, and had many more that got sick. As it turned out, I had to get Dr. Frederic L. Frye (world's most renowned Reptile Pathologist) to help me with the last of 5 necropsies I had done to get to the bottom of the problem.

As it turned out, my geckos were sick and dying from Hepatic Lipidosis, or fatty liver disease, which was caused from Mycotoxic poisoning from ingesting crickets that were fed on moldy corn-based food. When cricket feed is allowed to get wet and warm, it develops a mold that produces Aflatoxins... more specifically Aspergilus flavus, or B1. This substance is poison, but does not harm the crickets. When the geckos eat the toxic crickets, over a period of time their livers begin to fail from trying to filter out the poison and they will die a slow and agonizing death. Once I knew what the problem was and discontinued using the poison crickets, I was able to save about 10 other geckos that were suffering.

Since many of the cricket growers are in the southern states where it is hot and humid, and they use chicken mash as feed for the crix, it is an ideal environment for mold to develop on the food. I went public on this when I was going through it, and the cricket supplier tried to sue me for making "defamatory" remarks. When I sent all the patholgy reports and documentation to his attorneys, the case was dropped.

Recently, I had a problem with bacterial infections in several of my geckos. Nothing showed up on the comventional fecal tests, but when I submitted a stool sample to a lab for a culture, it showed bacteria was the problem. Out of curiosity, I sent in about a half-dozen live crickets right out of the shipping box to the same lab, and guess what? They were LOADED with 4 strains of gram negative bacteria and 1 strain of gram positive... all of the type that would cause severe sickness in my Leos. Fortunately, all of my sick geckos repsonded very well with Baytril, and I stopped using that cricket vendor.

So now what? There MUST be a cricket supplier out there that is aware of these potentially lethal problems and gives a 'you-know-what' about the quality of the feeders they are supplying. I certainly can't afford to take crickets in for lab testing every time I get a shipment, and I don't know if there is a similar problem with mealworms. I think that if everyone who feeds their animals crickets should really lean on the suppliers and become aware of the issue. This is a very good argument for feeding your crickets fresh produce and never allowing your commercial cricket food to become wet.

Thanks for letting me 'rant'....
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Marcia McGuiness
Golden Gate Geckos
www.goldengategeckos.com

Replies (13)

RedQuake Oct 14, 2003 03:29 PM

Thankyou for ranting......i missed the other posting of this issue. I never liked crickets, especially after i found out they carry worms that can infect my geckos. Now i use mealworms and butterworms although i've never had them tested for anything so they too could be carriers of infectious stuff. So far all of my guys are doing well, eating and active, so i'm not worried but to lose any of them would be devestating.

Thanks again
Red
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Crested Gecko Zeek:1.0
LEOS: Boo: 1.0 normal , Bronx & Nala: 1.1 blizzard,
Lily: 0.1 patternless, Abby: 0.1 albino, Zoe: 0.1 reduced pattern, Dot: 0.1 hypo
Chip: 1.0 papillion (small dog)
2.0 bettas

x1angelbabyx Oct 14, 2003 03:40 PM

wow thank you for all that information!!! i'm glad i switched to mealies because i had previously planned to get a kritter keeper to put crickets in with food lining the bottom and one of those moist pillows and leave it in my room near the leo's cage (which is near the window) and it gets hot & humid sometimes... but thank goodness i don't like the smell and i get bothered by the chirping... i hope everything works out for you~ there has to be SOME cricket breeder out there that provides healthy and clean free crix!!

aimee
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1.0 Albino Leopard Gecko (Melvin)
1.0 Black Lab / Pitbull mix (Mikey)
1.0 Blue Fighting Fish (Blue Balls)

geckoville Oct 14, 2003 03:41 PM

It is terrible that you had to go through all that and then have it happen again. For those of you looking for a smaller sized cricket breeder that takes pride in there feeders you should give superwormfarm.com a try. They are located in Kempton, PA and ship nationwide. We are fortunate that we live close enough to them to be able to pick up our cricket orders in person. I have toured their facilities and was quite impressed. Their crickets, from what I saw, are not kept on chicken mash but rather fed fresh fruits and the like, and have a constant supply of fresh water. A mojority of the employees are local Amish women, so they take pride in what they do.
We are in no way affiliated with superwormfarm.com. We are only trying to offer another feeder source that some people may not be aware of.

Good luck with your leos,
Uriah and Tina Walker
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xelda Oct 14, 2003 05:21 PM

Are their superworms and mealworms well cared for as well? ^_^
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chickabowwow

3.2 leopard geckos (Rosie, Locke, Lisa, Caesar, Tommy)
and 3 eggs a' cookin'

KelliH Oct 14, 2003 03:53 PM

Great info!
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Peace-
Kelli Hammack
H.I.S.S.
email me

xelda Oct 14, 2003 05:25 PM

I've heard that another thing to watch out for is breeders who use old egg cartons to save on costs. Supposedly, the chicken eggs can transmit coccidia from the chickens, then the coccidia rubs off onto the egg cartons, which can then come in contact with the crickets who will nibble on the egg cartons or shell fragments while they're being shipped.
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chickabowwow

3.2 leopard geckos (Rosie, Locke, Lisa, Caesar, Tommy)
and 3 eggs a' cookin'

Blazin Oct 14, 2003 05:46 PM

Nice post thanks for the heads up!

StarGecko Oct 14, 2003 06:03 PM

Of the mold poisoning again?

Thanks Marcia for the repost, it is valauable to evryone on this forum to be aware of. I mentioned the mold problem to ragnew I'm glad you filled in some details. I'd like to copy down the problem and symptoms somewhere for reference.

With the bacterial infection, did you notice an ammonia-like smell? What wrere the strains identified in the crickets?
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Sarah Stettler aka Starling
Sarah@stargecko.com
StarGecko.Com COMING SOON! Star Quality Leopard Geckos
Specializing in Hypotangerine Tremper Albinos

GoldenGateGeckos Oct 14, 2003 07:28 PM

The symptoms were typical of any other infection. Regurgitation, anorexia, diarrhea with a foul smell, weight loss, lethargy, and even grimmacing when being exposed to live food. I have over 150 geckos, and about 10% became infected and it was completely random...

The bacteria strains in the recent cricket samples were:
-Citrobacter Freundii
-Providencia Rettgeri
-Proteus Vulgaris
-Klebsiella Pneumoniae
-Aeromonas species

Fortunately, all but one strain was sensitive to Baytril and all the gex made a complete recovery after about 5-8 days of treatment. I dosed them at 25mg/kg twice a day for 2 weeks.
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Marcia McGuiness
Golden Gate Geckos
www.goldengategeckos.com

StarGecko Oct 14, 2003 10:23 PM

I guess I communicated poorly. I actually meant to ask what were the symptoms with the mold poisoning. The next questions were about the bacteria.
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Sarah Stettler aka Starling
Sarah@stargecko.com
StarGecko.Com COMING SOON! Star Quality Leopard Geckos
Specializing in Hypotangerine Tremper Albinos

GoldenGateGeckos Oct 14, 2003 11:28 PM

Same exact symptoms, without the foul diarrhea.
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Marcia McGuiness
Golden Gate Geckos
www.goldengategeckos.com

ecb Oct 15, 2003 10:27 AM

R dangerous to people with lowered imune response as well
so this is VERY good to know
I mgith just have to get a microscope and check feed animals myself (I used to be a bio major, I love parasites as long as they are on a slide)
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Elizabeth (ecb)

Make this world a better and more beautiful place that You have been in it
*Edward W Bok*

diInIN Oct 14, 2003 10:14 PM

Wow, what an experience. I didn't know hepatic lipidosis could be caused by that. I'm trying to avoid it right now in my beardie as we get her to lose weight. If she loses too fast, too much fat is mobilized at once, and it clogs up the liver.

I bagged the crickets a long time ago for both my leo's and my dragon. They smell, they die, they're expensive, and a pain to deal with. I breed my own mealies and don't miss those lousy crx one bit.
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di in IN
1.6.1 leopards ( 1 egg in the oven)
0.1 bearded dragons
4.2 fuzzy ferrets

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