Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi, I am new to posting messages here but not to this forum. I have been reading here about monitors for quite some time waiting for somebody to post something about Argus monitors.
I have been doing a lot of research about this species since I am so interested in them. the info I have found consists mainly of debates on whether to classify them as flavirufus,gouldii,panoptes and the list goes on. But I was looking for some personal facts from experianced people about the captive care and opinions of this awesome lizard.
So I was woundering if anyone owns these bad a** monitor lizards and could shed some light on me about them. I know the basics, such as the fact that they are Australians, they grow up to 5', they will eat you out of house and home, and give nasty wounds if you are not carefull.
thanks in advance
eric

www.varanus.nl silly rabbit!!

Yep go to www.Varanus.nl and ask this exact question. You'll get it answered, in depth.
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"Feed um then heat um"
"The less you breed the more you read"

Gould - v. gouldii (Oz)
Argus - v. panoptes horni (Indo)
Flavi - v. flavirufus (Oz)

v.panoptes panoptes is from oz, sometimes called an argus, but is not what you will find in the U.S.

I have Gould's and Argus, they are completely different monitors, both in behavior and physically. Argus are unfortunately undervalued, Goulds and Flavis are worth considerably more $.

Both the Gould and Argus are fun, I am looking to add some flavis to my collection as well.

Gould (v. gouldii)

Argus (v. panoptes horni)

--Robert

What is the differance temperment between flavirufus/gouldii
and panoptes? what size enclosures would you recomend for a single specimen? How many mice will an adult normaly go through in a week? I once had the opertunity to get a flavirufus x gouldii hornii but was unprepared at the time. Is there any advantage to a cross breed like this? These are just a few of my questions and thank you to all who have and will respond.
eric

I cannot speak for flavis as I don't own any yet. But, I've heard they are generally calmer.

Argus are more bold, Gouldii burrow more. Argus eat more, but Goulds still can eat alot. Both have strong feeding responses (argus slightly more), grow fast, and are fun to keep.

Have you looked at the crosses? If I had to do just one type, I'd probably go with a cross.

There are pictures on www.varanus.net of various crosses, flavis, goulds, and argus.

--Robert

Good description, Robert. I hear those are great monitors to work with. Very active. I'm seriously considering them.
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"Feed um then heat um"
"The less you breed the more you read"

I can offer some comments on behavioral differences between V. panoptes and V. gouldii based on wild animals in northern Australia. There, panoptes is much the larger species (to about 5', gouldii to about 3.5'), and it is a handful at any size. If you are slow about it, you can approach many gouldii, and they will simply flatten down. They struggle some when picked up, but are not eager to bite. In contrast, panoptes will nearly always run, and run as far as you can see (gouldii usually hole up within 50-100 yards). If you corner a panoptes or put a hand on it, exciting times will follow immediately -- they struggle to exhaustion, and will bite first, second, third, etc. People who do research on Australian goannas claim that, if you had one of every species each in a cloth bag lined up along a path, you could pick the panoptes as the bag that jumped up and bit you as you walked past.
Where they are not pestered by people or dogs, panoptes will get pretty bold around campsites and picnic areas, but you'll not see gouldii "taming down" in this way. Apart from the usual enthusiasm for biting when they expect to be fed, captive gouldii are a little jittery, but OK. Captive panoptes (I have experience only with V. p. horni from New Guinea) can be a lot more aggressive, and even long-term captives will try to do a number on you at times.

Hi Mr. Sweet. How are you doing? I have seen memebers of the panoptes group from coast to coast and the gouldi group also from coast to coast. As well as flavirufus from western queensland to the west coast. And while there are some things to say about them, all I can really come up with is, man do they need a lot of work.

Of interest is, I have found all three in the exact same habitat, also, many places where as least two exsist. I found that odd.

In my travels, I found several undescribed monitors, I have shown them to Danniel Bennett, he agrees they are not described. If your still interested in that type of thing, e-mail me.

The living panoptes is from southcentral queensland and the dead on is from between port douglas and carins. At the time, both areas did not include this species(1991)

Both of these are typical adult males, but I have seen very large males in a few localities, slighly over 2 meters. At one time I thought they were giants, now I believe, there are many types of panoptes.

FYI, in captivity, reproductive statistics are a major differences between these species. At this time, I breed all of these species and crosses between them as well. Thanks for your time. F

north of carins

I think I will shop around for a cross breed when the time comes to get a new monitor. Does anybody have any information on how fast these guys can grow? Will a 4'x 2'x 20" cage suit a hatchling for a little while until a larger cage is built?

Hi Frank,

No question that several species remain to be sorted out within gouldii and panoptes across their large ranges in Australia. Some of this is getting harder by the day as cane toads take over (they are now approaching Darwin, and will probably end up invading the Kimberley as far west as Derby). All of the larger monitors crash soon after cane toads arrive, and so far there is no indication that their populations recover.

This is a huge ecological problem (not just for monitors, but they are among the worst-affected). Once cane toads arrive, they are literally everywhere -- if you go out at night 98 of the first 100 herps you see will be toads. Small toads are just as toxic as adults, and they are so numerous that any individual monitor is guaranteed to find several per day. For millions of years Australian goannas have been able to regard frogs as good chow, and now they get this.

If you look at range maps and see that species like panoptes and gouldii have huge ranges that include a lot of dry country that cane toads will not be able to invade, you might say 'so what, they'll do OK in those places'. Wrong, if there are multiple species in each 'kind' as presently recognized, and if some of those occur only in cane toad country. Some species, such as V. mertensi and V. mitchelli, occur only where cane toads do or will thrive, and they are for all intents and purposes extinct inside of the cane toad front.

Not much time left, in other words, to sort out the actual numbers of species in some of these northern Australian species complexes.

SS

I would not disagree with you about the toads, as I have seen first hand the destruction they have caused. But there may be some hope. The dead panoptes is from a area only a short distance north of where the toads were introduced. Also, places like Frazier Island, have solid populations of Lacies and Goulds, and that island is totally full of cane toads.

You are totally right about Mertens and Mitchells, they may be in serious trouble. Also, monitors such as the spiny tailed group have not been effected by toads. Oh well, its too late and too much of a bummer to think about. F

Hi Eric
I dont no whear to start they are all great animals i work with Flavi's Argus and Gouldii/flavi cross and love them all i have a care sheet for them on my web page as to how i keep them and do with them maby it can help a bit
Thanks Adam
Web page at www.jungleherps.com

The argus monitor care sheet on your website is not working, the screen says done but the page is blank?

Sorry the care sheet page is fixed now on my webpage
Adam
www.jungleherps.com