Reptile & Amphibian Forums

http://www.[bleep].com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27447

All keepers in the Tampa area are strongly urged to attend this meeting!

~TE
Florida Exotics Ban

I for one would rather leave Florida than have my rights to keep venomous snakes taken away. We have a good enough permit system, I see no other need at all for future restrictions.

Joe

Please keep us updated on what happens with this meeting. I am a Florida resident but am beginning to hate how things are going for venomous keepers. They made our permits 20x more expensive, and now they don't want us breeding exotic animals at all? They also want us to put out warning signs on our front yards, telling people we have deadly cobras and vipers?

I try my best not to let my neighbors know that I have venomous snakes, for a big reason, which putting up a sign in my yard would really mess up. All it would take is a few complaints from neighbors saying they're fearful of their lives to outlaw venomous snakes one city and/or county at a time. They claim it's for the public and government officials to know what they're getting into, but I don't buy that. They're looking at a bigger picture, one of a total ban on reptiles and exotic animals.

The link seems to be broken. I am very interested in more info about this. I am planning to attend grad school in Florida and this could affect my decision. I have put alot of time, money and effort into my snakes. If anybody has more info on this let me know.

TW

why was this cencored, thats bull[bleep], since this is about herping and effects us.

Please post the link again

Any ideas who caused this mess to start?
unsafe hot herpers getting bit with out any plan.
any publicity is bad lets hope these people stay far away from cameras or the press they will ruin it for us.
I used to think careless hot handlers control themselves through
darins theory of evolution.
but no! they screw everyone.
soon I can feel it will be time to expose some to get even
since they have no intention of doing what is right.
so The you may see soon a new thing i will use the internet with [deadbeat unsafe herpers life historys names pictures and warnings from 4 to 5 or more ripped off people plus addresses as they are located.
we must police ourselves

what do you think of that?

bud

I think we can all start right at home by looking at ourselves and saying, "How can I change my own behavior to present a more professional image of venomous snake keepers to the public?" Starting by policing our own behavior is probably the most effective thing we can resolve to do right now.

I'm not just pointing the finger either; personally I need to try harder not to lose my temper at people who kill snakes, because that doesn't help educate them any better. I know that I have trouble being calm and professional in those circumstances, and it's something I need to work on.

Can you identify what you need to work on in order to present a more professional image of venomous keepers? I can, and I'm trying to do that for myself. If we can all resolve to make some efforts in that direction I could see a lot of good being done.

n/p

That was the best post u ever made T. This last year I worked hard on my approach towards a better example. The thing is, I have to many faults to correct. Maybe I'm getting smarter? Insanity is a b!tch. Say hi to all. TF

What do you think I've been preaching for the last...umteem months! Try to get any of these people motivated and they will tell you the problem does not concern them. Then they whine when their rights are taken away. How many of you have responded for example to the proposed Boiga Ban? I offered to send a copy of our local (Florida)response to anyone who wanted to sign and/or circulate it. So far no one on the forums has asked for it. Yet itthe legislation) will have a huge impact on all of us as it can be expanded to include practically any snake.
I spend a good deal of time each month preparing an educational program for my herp society and that is only a small part of the educational program the society offers...Do any of the local herp breeders/dealers attend? NO. We get 10-12 people (mostly regular members) who show up. Policing ourselves has to start with Motivation Education.
The people in the best position to stimulate keepers into educating themselves or joining Herp societies are the Business people. They have the most contact. It is a pity that we so often see herp society members become dealers and then quit the society. Especially when I see so many of them that have a very limited education about any snake other than what they breed and/or sell and are not interested in getting that education.
lastly (lest I ramble), We need to lose this "It Does not Effect Me" additude on these issues. The law does not have to be specific to be all inclusive. A law that effects gopher tortoises can be used to make a law that effects ratsnakes or even Goldfish. These issues have to be faced and people need to get off their butts and start getting involved before they find themselves with a nice photo collection to remember their Herps by.
Frank

Here is a very interesting article on why Hillsborough County Florida (Tampa) wants to ban reptiles:
http://www.abcactionnews.com/stories/2003/08/030819snakebite.shtml
Link

That there is abuse is sad...But true. part of it has to do with people who have minimal training (if any), or are driven to this hobby by ego "Gotta keep them bad boys" or are too stupid to be trusted with this kind of responsibility....I don't know how to screen the irresponsible from the positive people in this endeaver but there is the same problem with people who drink...or have guns...and nobody is saying that either of those should be totally banned.
We are dealing with a prejudice...one that is very easily justified by those of us who make mistakes or are just plain idiots. The result is the same. What is sad is the mindset in this crowd that they refuse to see what is coming...and when they do; are only capable of crying on this forum or making sage like commentary instead of doing something...Perhaps they deserve the loss of their collections and their rights...for not having the guts to defend them.
Frank

Personally, I think it's the dealers that need to be policed more than anyone else. Bottom line, people buy hot snakes because ANY dealer, will sell to ANY person, at ANY time, and anything otherwise is bullsh!t. I've seen dealers at Hamburg sell hots to kids who it was blatantly obvious had no experience or training whatsoever, that BARELY if even, broke the 18 year old mark. Why? Because it's Hamburg and it's PA, and it's legal. Well what about the person who isn't from PA that the dealer from FL just sold a cobra to? Who's fault is it? It's the dealers responsibility to put a snakes into a qualified/licensed persons hands, sad thing it, it's the money that puts the snake in a persons hands, not common sense on the dealers part. Here's a question....what are the dealers going to do to make any money when hots are illegal? Then again, probably the same thing they are doing now, because there really isn't any difference.

I agree. It is all good and fine to keep your snakes in a responsible manner, but that is not going to stop others from being irresponsible and causing legislation. We need a unifying body and a standard for hot keepers above what is already available. We need a voice and an organization to police and protect our rights. There needs to be a standard hot education requirement that should be provided by this body. There also needs to be localized antivenom banks and dues must be paid to these LOCAL sources of antivenom if one wishes to have a license. We need to have less legislation against keeping and more safety standards and selection of which individuals have met these requirements. I am all for taking action, but how do we go about this? Many hot keepers are islands to themselves having little contact with other keepers locally and decent organizations are unavailable to most.

TW

A good start is your local Herp society...Aside from being "just a club" the herp societies usually are the ones on the front line doing what good that is being done for herps with education and outreach programs. In 1987 I initiated the first Florida herp society legal commity in Gainsville. Since then the Florida societies have formed a union. To my experience, Herp societies are generally viewed with distain by dealers which is a pity. When a reputable society approaches the lawmakers they carry more weight because they Are Not in the business of making money off herps and a viewed as more altruistic.
Frank

---re: The you may see soon a new thing i will use the internet with [deadbeat unsafe herpers life historys names pictures and warnings from 4 to 5 or more ripped off people plus addresses as they are located.
we must police ourselves

what do you think of that?

bud ---

i think you better have not one, but a team of good lawyers - because if you do that - you WILL be sued! I would - and win.