Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey guys,

I need some help with a new setup. I'm into coral reefs but since I dont have the space for my type of saltwater setup here in my college dorm, I decided to set up a Paludarium / Vivarium instead. I have a 45 gallon tank which is 36" long, 12" front to back" and 24" tall. I painted the back of the glass with black spray paint from the outside ( no paint on inside of tank ), and I have purchased a couple pieces of cork bark, 2 large pieces for waterfalls on each corner and some smaller pieces to form terraces. Also on both left and right sides of the tank near the cork bark waterfalls will be panels of coco fiber siliconed to the wall. I'm hoping to get a bunch of plants growing here and then above each side I will have PVC with holes in it (connected to a pump down below) which will provide rain trickling down the plants (it will be on a timer).

Anyhow this is the general layout of my tank that I am still working on, and although there will be a lot of plants and a decent amount of land, the bottom third of the tank will be water where I will keep some peaceful fish pertaining to the habitat (lets say I keep a south american tree frog, I would keep neon tetras and some cory doras since those pertain to south america as well, etc.). What I would like to do is get a small colony of tree frogs for this tank, with the hope of breeding them eventually and rearing the tadpoles in the water area below. So this is where I can't decide on which tree frog to get, mostly because I just don't know about all the species out there. It would be cool to get a more active species of tree frog but I'm aware that most are nocturnal and won't do much in the day at all. I have had my eye on the red eye tree frog and after doing some reading I think my tank will be suitable for it, the only thing that I wasn't sure about is which frog would be able to handle the small body of water with the small fish at the bottom of the tank.

Any suggestions and information for frog species? thanks.

- Mike

It sounds like it will be a very beautiful set up!!! The only thing I would watch is having fish in there with frogs. You risk the frogs trying to eat them, or the fish nipping at the frogs. Those wiggly little froggie toes may look yummy to a fish. I actually read a while back when first starting the frog hobby about someone's frog who lost the tips of two toes due to a nibbling Molly fish! Also concider the stress factor, especially with REs. They are a very sensitive species and sometimes even a bit of movement in the water can cause stress to them. They start to feel unsafe and will either hide all the time to avoid being seen by what every is lurking in the water or even get ill and die. Keep in mind also that since frogs absorb through their skin and will go to the wataer to soak... fish produce LOTS of ammonia and waste, so you'll have to keep that water VERY clean!!!

Most of the time, in the end... it's just best to stick with 1 species of animal per tank. Now if you skip the fish, lower the water level, set up that misting system you could have yourself a fantastic RE breeding colony. (though in a 45 gallon I wouldn't have more than 4 REs)

When you decide what you want to do... you be sure to post pictures!!!! I would LOVE to see your end result!!!
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Heather

Skipping the fish.. hmm I'll think about it but not sure. I mean the main intent of me setting up the tank was to make it for fish and I was going to keep african dwarf frogs in the water too, the top half of the tank would be for lush plant growth and water falls. Only recently I made the decision to drog the dwarf frogs and focus more on a tree frog tank. The fish I was thinking of adding would be very peaceful and with small mouths like tetras, guppies etc.. The guppies would probably breed weekly so I would actually enjoy it if the frogs ate the fry to keep the population in control. Are there any other colorful / attractive species of tree frogs that would tolerate them well, or is it a risk with any species? The most satisfying aspect of the tank to me is if the frogs did breed and I could raise the tadpoles in the water below.

The underwater portion of the tank will be planted, and also that same water will be trickling down the walls of the terrestrial plant areas as well. So all the plants will aid in keeping the nutrient levels down from the water (we call this an ecosystem, but scientifically speaking using fish wastes to grow plants is called aquaponics). I was even thinking instead of the frogs to keep some painted butterflies in there.. but just another idea. I have a digital camera and will take pictures as I progress through construction. Right now I'm just looking at the cork bark in the empty dry tank and visualizing it.

I'm sure that others will have ideas as well, but I'm wondering if keeping an elevated water dish higher up in the tank for tree frogs would possibly keep the frogs from really ever going down to the main water portion of the tank. Guppies would definitely end up as food so the frog would keep the population on them down... BUT you'll want to watch because fish are high in fats and in the long run, be quite unhealthy for your frogs. Of course, then you could run across a cleanliness problem with cricket corpses in the water below. I don't think there's anything more disgusting than dead, water logged crickets!! Not to mention the level of bacteria caused by them. Eeeww icky!

I would do some research on tree frogs and see what ones require the higher hummidity since you would have a good portion of water. REs reguire around 50-70*, while something like Tiger Legs and White's are quite a bit lower.

Wait and see what others suggest and go from there. There are SO many knowledgable people here, I'm sure someone will have the perfect solution for you!
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Heather

The water will be around 80 degrees and this in turn warm up the tank a bit. As I've said, the cork bark pieces on both corners of the tank will have a powerhead behind them shooting water up to trickle down them, so water will be available up above to the tree frogs. The entire tank will be a very wet environment, but with dry areas as well. If tree frogs are the wrong type of frog for this tank then let me know. I'm just looking for expert suggestions of what frog would do best in this tank, then I can research that species on my own and modify the habitat towards it. But having some fish like tetras and cories at the bottom of the tank is something I really want to do, because when the frogs are resting all day and other students come to view my tank I want them to have something to look at - as well as making the tank more of an ecosystem. And yes the water area below will be planted as well with aquatic plants.