Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Does anyone know if this species is imported? If so, is it done legally? Is it even legal to own them? The only place that I know of that has them is the Baltimore Aquarium. I heard they have a deal with the Brazilian government not to let this species leak out into the hobby. They are such amazing looking frogs ....wish I could get some, but don't want them if there is some kind of legal issue. Any thoughts or info would be appreciated.

They a group of three for sale on the frognet classified.
Kind of pricey but probably well worth it.
ADAM

I know that John Gibbeau (sp.?) of tincs.com has them for sale from time to time. I don't think you'd have a problem with the law if they were bought as captive bred animals, as I suspect that the problem with obtaining wild caught specimen has to do with obtaining export permits (which may not be given for that species anymore).

Oh, and the $133 each on frognet is a pretty fair price from what I have seen.
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Homer W. Faucett III, esq.
Purveyor of Trivialities and Fine Nonsense

From what I remember of the story (which could be wrong, or entirely true) they came in to the Aquarium of the Americas on a Research Permit from Brazil. They have never left Brazil legally (even in Europe-- where they are now legal and can be shipped with CITES paperwork). In any event, I hear that someone there (I do know the name) gave some to some of his friends, as people are known to do, and those friends bred them. After a little while someone caught wind of it and asked the person to collect back all the animals he gave out and the offspring. Not everyone gave them back, and hence they are now out in the hobby. So technically they are not legal, however, your guess is as good as mine whether it will be a problem to own them or not. It's one of those times where it's kind of nice not to have frogs...

John of tincs.com has not produced tadpoles from his group of 6 frogs. John aquired his from Todd Kelley and evidently Todd's waiting list is not that long. At nw frogfest tracy hicks may have some for sale. They run about 125-150 in washington state.

Alexander Stubbs

Leagalities requarding animal trade has changes alltogether recently. As many have probably heard the US has legalized trade of endangered species. I dont know, however, what the perameters are for abtaining endangered species; or if just anyone is allowed to get endangered species. If this had any relevance whatsoever. =)

I wouldn't worry too much about it. You don't see US fish and wildlife banging down doors to seize azureus do you? They were never legally imported either.

This is John Gibeau of Tincs.com. I have produced two clutches of eggs from my castaneoticus, and all were bad. I have a group of six, as Alexander said - The only person on this forum that knows my collection better than he does is myself.

First, the United States Fish and Wildlife does NOT selectively set dart frogs as legal or illegal. They are all (Dendrobatids, Phyllobates, Epipedobates, and Minyobates) a CITES II animal, and therefore legal to bring into the country. As long as there is paperwork fom the country they are arriving FROM, and that does not have to be the country of origin (It is actually easier to get WC animals than it is CB animals, because the WC animals have pre-existing paperwork most of the time)F&W will stamp them every time, and not say a word. They do NOT get involved if an animal that is in the country legally under paperwork contract, like A. zeteki from Panama, gets into the public and breaks the contract that the country of Panama has with the AZA - The AZA simply has to deal with the legal issues of getting sued by Panama, and not getting animals from the country in the future. F&W will not start going around trying to collect up the frogs that are in hobbyist hands because technically, they are legal - They came in on a 1077, which is all it takes. All contracts beween host country and reception country are between them.

It was mentioned that D azureus are illegal; this is not true. They came into the states under a 1077, I believe to the Baltimore Zoo and Aquarium, and offspring were traded away to the private sector for a different species of frog. Suriname got really pissed, but in the end could do nothing, because someone left out the "no release" clause in the contract. Just like human babies; if it is born here, it lives here and that is that.

I hope I have cleared up any problems there might be with whether or not Alexander Stubbs knows the content of Washington State frogger collections, whether or not I have bred castaneoticus, whether or not Todd Kelly has castaneoticus, (he does, and LOTS of them) and the legality or lack thereof of castaneoticus and azureus.