Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I recently was offered a few specimens of Dendrobates vanzolinii. I am new with Dendrobates and was just wondering if I should start with them. They are captive bred and cost me $ 30 each. But there is not much to be found about this species can you guys help me out. For instance how do you sex them?

I want to point out that I DO NOT HAVE THEM YET and Iam CONSIDERING them. Please dont crusify me, I am just looking for information. (on another forum people attacked me and I aint waiting for that.)

The vivarium I have is 50x50x60 (lxdxh in cm) with fern roots on 3 sides, lava rock waterfall and a bunch of bromeliads. The temp. gets around 25 - 27 degrees Celsius daytime and around 20-21 D.Celsius at night. At this time the vivarium has been empty since I got it.
Have experience with other amphibians (6 years) and chameleons (2 years)

If you can get hold of or have the Jewels of the Rainforest-Poison Frogs of the Family Dendrobatidae you will find info. on page 202-203. There is even a hand drawn pic. of what they look like.

Best.
Ron Jung at RAINFOREST DESIGNS UNLTD.

http://www.snomnh.ou.edu/personnel/herpetology/caldwell/Janpics/Dendro.jpg

There's a picture of one I think.

All the vanzolinii pics I have seen have spots on them not striping....not saying their is a striped one though I have 1 good pic here but I not shore how copy right laws work so I cant post it.
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Brian Ferriera JR
Plympton, Ma

P. Terribilis (orange)
P.Bicolor (soon)
D. azureus
D. ventrimaculatus
E. hahneli
D. tinctorius (Oyapok )
D. Fantasticus
D. leucomelas
D. castaneoticus (soon)

Are those kept in the US? If so who has them and for how much?
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Kyle
www.kylesphotos.com
D. leucomelas
D. azureus

Can you get any more of these ? I never saw them before but the picture of them is awesome.

The person who breeds them has more as far as I know of. He also has other species like:

D. arboreus, D. duellmani, D. fantasticus, D. lamasi, D. lehmanni, D. mysteriosus, D. speciosus, D. truncatus, D. vincentei, E. silverstoni, M. minutus, P. bicolor, P. terribilis

And more species, I will give you his address once I have got mine..

For D. vanzolinii I found out they are to be compared with imitator, is this right?

GP

well bye looking at that list I have to wonder..what country is this person in..I don't think this is a US breeder.
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Brian Ferriera JR
Plympton, Ma

P. Terribilis (orange)
P.Bicolor (soon)
D. azureus
D. ventrimaculatus
E. hahneli
D. tinctorius (Oyapok )
D. Fantasticus
D. leucomelas
D. castaneoticus (soon)

You won't get crucified here. There are no Romans that haven't already been put down for patronizing newcomers. You will get a lot of interest in a specie that we don't often get a chance to discuss. In fact, I have only a drawing of it, not even a photograph. Please tell us more. From where are you considering obtaing it-- give some details and perhaps photos of your setup. You may get more advice than you ever wanted to know, but you sure won't get crucified.

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Patty
Lost River, Idaho

. . . I say we hang 'em instead of crucify! Just kidding. I had never even heard of this species before you brought it up--then again, I'm relatively new to the hobby. The picture that is posted certainly gives me an idea of why you would want to keep these little beauties. If you find anything out, please let us know. I would certainly consider some of these at the price you were talking about if they turn out to be relatively easy to care for (compared to other darts).

I'm assuming they are egg feeders, as the body shape looks somewhat reminiscent of the imitators. Oh well, I'm tired of showing my ignorance . . . back to the background.
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Homer W. Faucett III, esq.
Purveyor of All Trivialities

Nope their a thumb-nail frog like a vent..care from what I am told is identical to them. I would keep them in a tall aquarium in small group's with only one male. Hope this helps viperhair
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Brian Ferriera JR
Plympton, Ma

P. Terribilis (orange)
P.Bicolor (soon)
D. azureus
D. ventrimaculatus
E. hahneli
D. tinctorius (Oyapok )
D. Fantasticus
D. leucomelas
D. castaneoticus (soon)

No, this is not a specie you want to start with in the Dendrobatidae hobby.

You want something more visible/large to start with, such as truncatus/tinc/luec group frog. You can monitor their health much more easliy.

I don't now if I would agree with that ..European breeders and a few American I have talked to have all seemed to feel that their an easy frog to keep..yes their small however with 6 years of amphibian care under his belt he should be fine
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Brian Ferriera JR
Plympton, Ma

P. Terribilis (orange)
P.Bicolor (soon)
D. azureus
D. ventrimaculatus
E. hahneli
D. tinctorius (Oyapok )
D. Fantasticus
D. leucomelas
D. castaneoticus (soon)

We all have differnet opinions on things, and I shall elaborate more on mine.

"I am new with Dendrobates and was just wondering if I should start with them."
This is his FIRST dartfrog. One point I want you to keep in mind, Brian.

The vanzolinii should go to someone who is experienced in breeding darts and knows what there doing, as they need to be established in the hobby a lot better, and not to someone who is just starting out with keeping Dendrobatidae.

Do you think someone here in the US should go ahead and get some lamasi or duellmani just because there "hard to get" and found a source, with having 6yrs of keeping clawed frogs for example.
I DONT THINK SO. They need to go to someone with the EXPERINCE with BREEDING dartfrogs, period.
I can understand why people on the European forum "attacked" him for thinking he should get these as his first dartfrog.

Not trying to start a fight here, as I havent really posted a lot here since I first started keeping darts back in 99.

Phewwww, my fingers hurt from typing.

This is strictly my opinion and is not intended to tick anyone off.
Peace and Phish !

Jeremy Goudreau ~~*
Midcoast Maine

>>
>>"I am new with Dendrobates and was just wondering if I should start with them."
>>This is his FIRST dartfrog. One point I want you to keep in mind, Brian.

Do you really think these frogs are that hard???? Any one that does the proper research should not have a problem

>>
>> The vanzolinii should go to someone who is experienced in breeding darts and knows what there doing, as they need to be established in the hobby a lot better,

Do you mean over here or over their? If its a $30 frog that would make me think their is allot of them over their...in witch case that make them around the same as leucs over here.

>>
>>Do you think someone here in the US should go ahead and get some lamasi or duellmani just because there "hard to get" and found a source, with having 6yrs of keeping clawed frogs for example.

At what point does he say he only keeping clawed frogs? I again don't think they are that hard to get...over their if you look at his setup he sounds in pretty good shape

>>I DONT THINK SO. They need to go to someone with the EXPERINCE with BREEDING dartfrogs, period.
>>I can understand why people on the European forum "attacked" him for thinking he should get these as his first dartfrog.
>>
Why ..you cant compare their hobby over their to our hobby over here..we have Tor and Todd and Sean and that's bout it..their are very few people over here that can hold a candle German or Dutch breeders. Then been doing this far longer then we have and have more experience then we do..Just some thing to think about
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Brian Ferriera JR
Plympton, Ma

P. Terribilis (orange)
P.Bicolor (soon)
D. azureus
D. ventrimaculatus
E. hahneli
D. tinctorius (Oyapok )
D. Fantasticus
D. leucomelas
D. castaneoticus (soon)

Had to dig but I did come up with this..not mutch but a start
The PIC http://www.herpetofauna.hpg.ig.com.br/Pages/Anuros6.htm

http://www.thebdg.org/library/frogspecies/d__vanzolinii.htm

also where was it that people gave you a hard time?
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Brian Ferriera JR
Plympton, Ma

P. Terribilis (orange)
P.Bicolor (soon)
D. azureus
D. ventrimaculatus
E. hahneli
D. tinctorius (Oyapok )
D. Fantasticus
D. leucomelas
D. castaneoticus (soon)

Had to dig but I did come up with this..not mutch but a start
The PIC http://www.herpetofauna.hpg.ig.com.br/Pages/Anuros6.htm

http://www.thebdg.org/library/frogspecies/d__vanzolinii.htm

also where was it that people gave you a hard time?
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Brian Ferriera JR
Plympton, Ma

P. Terribilis (orange)
P.Bicolor (soon)
D. azureus
D. ventrimaculatus
E. hahneli
D. tinctorius (Oyapok )
D. Fantasticus
D. leucomelas
D. castaneoticus (soon)

No, these are not a specie you want to start with in the Dendrobatidae hobby.

You would probably want something more visible/large, such as truncatus/tinc/luec type frogs.

WOW!!!!!!!!!

I didnt know it would create that much of a sturr (dont know how to write it.) As I mentioned I am from Europe, Holland to be precise. Here we have about 3 frogdays a year, on these shows only captive bred is sold and wildcaught animals that are in captivaty for at least 6 years and the only 6 specimens per seller. Here you find almost ALL the Dendrobates you can ever dream off. The next show is in september, which I will visit, and I will also go to Europes largest show in Hamm Germany.

Then I respect the people who told me not to start with these frogs, and I have thought about it but why not, all the basic things are done and OK to see any disease or other problems can be an issue, but IF I get them I will join the Dendrobates Nederland - A specialised group of breeders of this genus. I think that if I would get a problem members will help. Our vets are terrible if it comes to reptiles and amphibians they dont know nothing. The US vets are MUCH better in this part!
But I am still informing myself at this point, and have not any decision yet,have enough time.

The person who offered me the frogs is in Central America, which gives me some doubts to be honest. I have seen export documents of the frogs and health certificates. I have asked for pictures of all the species he is offering. Maby its just a crook who is selling nothing. But I have found some interested parties here that will and want to order some frogs with me.

Here is the complete list I received:

We can offer you following species of Dendrobates – Poison Arrow Frogs from our farm.
All these Dendrobates are breed and born in captivity in our farm:

Dendrobates Arboreus
Dendrobates Auratus
Dendrobates Duellmani
Dendrobates Fantasticus
Dendrobates Granuliferus
Dendrobates Histrionicus
Dendrobates Imitator
Dendrobates Lamasi
Dendrobates Lehmanni
Dendrobates Leucomelas
Dendrobates Mysteriosus
Dendrobates Pumilio
Dendrobates Quinquevittatus
Dendrobates Recticulatus
Dendrobates Sirensis
Dendrobates Speciosus
Dendrobates Tinctorius
Dendrobates Truncatus
Dendrobates Vanzolinii
Dendrobates Variabilis
Dendrobates Vincentei
Epipedobates Azureiventris
Epipedobates Boulengeri
Epipedobates Femoralis
Epipedobates Maculatus
Epipedobates Silverstonei
Minyobates Minutus
Phyllobates Aurotaenia
Phyllobates Bicolor
Phyllobates Lugubris
Phyllobates Terribilis
Phyllobates Vittatus

CB Arboreus, histrio, grans, vanzolinii, vicentei, sirensis, speciosus, E. maculatus ect?
Wouldnt that be incredible!! VERY VERY VERY VERY unlikly though.

Might I ask what country their "farm" is stationed in?
Perhaps a name(s) of the person behind this Dendrobate farm?

You do relize that the list of frogs you gave comes from not one country, but from all over Central and South America.

Sounds like someone is trying to scam you, be extremely cautious with this venture.

If it sounds to good to be true, it usually is..... where are those RED tincs? lol
Jeremy Goudreau
Midcoast Maine

>>CB Arboreus, histrio, grans, vanzolinii, vicentei, sirensis, speciosus, E. maculatus ect?
>>Wouldnt that be incredible!! VERY VERY VERY VERY unlikly

With the exception of sirensis and speciosus I know people that are keeping and breeding all the frogs here...though the word "farm" leaves allot open and I have heard that speciosus is extinct..I would also say be careful
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Brian Ferriera JR
Plympton, Ma

P. Terribilis (orange)
P.Bicolor (soon)
D. azureus
D. ventrimaculatus
E. hahneli
D. tinctorius (Oyapok )
D. Fantasticus
D. leucomelas
D. castaneoticus (soon)

When something is too good to be true, it is (too good to be true.) The impressive list is so far over the top, that I'd be suspicious, too. It's now not just a matter of whether you would be able to care for them with lots of research, but whether this is a possible scam of some sort, as Brian and others have pointed out.
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Patty
Lost River, Idaho

The problem being here is that list is huge even if this is a big time breeder over their this list is still massive. I know people over their working with 20-30 different types but that list had 32 frogs listed and some of them frogs (tinks and aurtus etc) have many many different morphs I should also point out their are a few frogs on their that have me a bit concerned for one thing the frog D. Mysteriosus has never been exported legally all them frogs are from frogs stolen and smuggled into Germany.
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Brian Ferriera JR
Plympton, Ma

P. Terribilis (orange)
P.Bicolor (soon)
D. azureus
D. ventrimaculatus
E. hahneli
D. tinctorius (Oyapok )
D. Fantasticus
D. leucomelas
D. castaneoticus (soon)

GUYS THANKS ALOT FOR ALL THE INFORMATION. I have been digging a bit furter in the person who has offered me the animals. The person is located in Costa Rica, or that is what he said. I wanted to know if all was true, so I grabbed the phone and called to Costa Rica, I dont speak spanish and the person I had on the other line didnt speak English. So I hang up, instead I called the Dutch embassy and asked if they could find out at the wildlife department. They gave me a number which I had to call to get an english speaking wildlife officer or something in that function. He was very helpfull and looked it all up. And guess what NO one by this name or that farm was known! It has costed me alot of money to find it all out but now I know he was a fraud!!

Sorry for all this but next time I will be more carefull with posting messages. Again sorry

You did a lot of homework, but it was probably less expensive than getting stung. I wonder just what this guy's scam is?

I found the whole thing pretty interesting, but of course, I wasn't paying for your phone calls, either. You don't owe anyone an apology for bringing it up here!!
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Patty
Lost River, Idaho

The only way to learn is to ask questions. It was nice to see most of the forum in on this. We need more question like this I think .
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Brian Ferriera JR
Plympton, Ma

P. Terribilis (orange)
P.Bicolor (soon)
D. azureus
D. ventrimaculatus
E. hahneli
D. tinctorius (Oyapok )
D. Fantasticus
D. leucomelas
D. castaneoticus (soon)