Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I thought that goldfish lacked thiamine and that in feeding other food provided the needed element. Am i wrong, and that they DO contain thiamine and it has negative effects if it is in the whole diet?....this is very diserning for me because i thought i understood the situation...
-Dan

Thiamine is vitamin B1.
Thiamine (Vitamin B1) is good!
Goldfish carry an enzyme called thiaminase.
Thiaminase destroys thiamine.
Thiaminase is bad! It causes nerve damage by eliminating thiamine.

From "for management purposes (feeding fish-eating animals)" it is reported that ... all carp including minnows carry the thiaminase enzyme. And that trout do not.

They further state "assume all fish carry thiaminasae" however I am taking this as a question of degrees.

I offer all of my nerodia a mix of trout, minnows and goldfish.
ps I'm not able to access the referenced page by it's address however I will gladly return to it and note all fish species they speak of, if you so desire.
Michael

if you could that would be much appreciated
-Dan

Sorry I've been away so long, I've been at two vets today regarding ANOTHER snake with a "new" eye problem!

Anyway, somewhat paraphrased (latin omitted) ...

Fish WITH thiaminase: "all cyprinidae (carp, rudd, roach, goldfish, tench, minnow, etc.), smelt, loach, bullhead, bream, herring, dogfish, ALSO POSSIBLY mackerel and whiting."

Fish WITHOUT thiaminase: "all salmonidae (trout, salmon, char, etc.), eel, pike, perch, bass, cod, haddock, hake, halibut, sole, plaice, sprat, skate."

You can see that several of the above are saltwater fish and not normally fed to our nerodia. Hope this info helps, and by the way, if you want the latin on any I'll re-submit as required (for example "bullhead, ameiurus spp."
Michael

>>Sorry I've been away so long, I've been at two vets today regarding ANOTHER snake with a "new" eye problem!

Another eye problem!? That's awful. Who is it now? Another fasciata?

I've never had any eye problems (knock on wood) but I've had almost every other problem out there. Hope it turns out alright.
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Pierson Hill

Herpetology and Herpetoculture

Yes, another! This time my beautiful female taxispilota. She shed yesterday (or the night before) and as I reviewed the "tattered" skin I could not find the second brille. I observed initially upon inspection that her left eye was clouded so I gave her a quick bath and then swabbed the (right) eye with a dampened q-tip. I also noted what appeared to be skin fragments around the eye socket. Some form of tissue seemed to come off of the eye but the fragments remained. Also, at this point I observed that the eye tissue was attached in such a way that the swab pulled at the eye itself AND that their seemed to be a reddening at the top/back side of the socket. Then I saw that the eye itself was sunken, not bulging as Taxi eyes do normally! Off to the vet!! One hour waiting only to be told that this vet is not "comfortable" with snakes! Went back home fast, web search and phone calls to find another/any vet open on Sunday. Dr. Diane Boyle said she had little experience but would do what she could. I went! She recommended and supplied (as you yourself advised earlier) a sulphur? based opthalmic eye drop. Also increase temp, extreme humidity increase (for a short time) and vitamin E applied to the eye once a day. This for 5 days and return for assessment. ($42.00 + $14.00 for med).
During the initial history (I told her of the other two) and my frequent assistance of many of the snakes to shed, she suggested that perhaps the standing humidity was too low (about 40-50%) and most in particular ... perhaps, I'm causing problems by being to fastidious in as much as I assist shedding much too often. I told her of my concern with skin problems and fungus/mould in the tanks from moisture. She advised, find a way! I like this Doctor!! This goes directly to the tanks I'm trying to design, with no success on an appropriate (or no)substrate! These are to be ... off topic, sorry. Just gave the girl the Vit-E treatment, eye is more clouded than yesterday and still sunken. If this does'nt get cured quick, I'm going to release the snakes and shoot myself!
Les Miserable, Michael

I'm sorry to hear that. Is it the same problem that the fasciata is having? I wouldn't think elevating the humidity would be the best way to solve a possible fungal or bacterial infection. I've always been told "clean and dry!" I hope she recovers.

Oh, that topical cream is called SSD or Silvadene.
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Pierson Hill

Herpetology and Herpetoculture

Silavadene topical! This stuff is Gentocin opthalmic (liquid drops). Is the eye problem the same? Oh, I hope not! At this stage the Doc suspects shedding anomolies however, if the condition persists beyond 5 days more investigation will ensue. I'm still suprised at the lack of interest in the shed skin itself. I'm going to bring this point up to the "new" doctor since it (appears to me) to reflect the underlying condition! I would think that a microscopic or culture exam would tell us a lot.
Frankly, I've raised many snakes over the last 40 years and have never had a problem except when I knowingly purchased a desireable but very sick animal. Some have recovered but most did not. It was some time ago that I determined not to ever, ever support the sale of ill or poorly treated animals!
It is conceivable that the first pictiventris which was sent to me "in mint condition" with running sores has infected the others. This remains to be seen.
Any prayers for an accurate diagnosis or miraculous healing would be greatly appreciated!
Michael