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thinking about building a rack system but dont' know how to start

rudedogsurfrat Oct 20, 2003 12:14 AM

first of all I'm breeding hongnose snakes. They need about 10gal a piece. I don't even know what materials to use or how to put one together without leaving a gap that the snake would escape from. Then heating is a big issue too. I knew a guy who almost burned his house down do to faulty heating.
Does anyone know where I can get all of this information, before I spend a bunch of money and ruin the materials or spend a bunch of money on a rack that I could have buit myself.

thanks

Rudy
-----
0.1 Rubber Boa
1.1 Eastern Hognose Snakes
2.3 Western Hognose Snakes
1.0 Durango Mountain Kingsnake
1.1 Woma's (new!)
Spadefoot
Black Knobbed Sawback
Northern Diamondback
Florida Redbellied Slider
Western Painted
Southern Painted
1.0 African Hedgehog
1.0 Sulcata
2.1 Leopard (Babcocki) 1.0 borrowed (thanks Bobby)
2 Plecos
2 Silver Dollars
3 Bosemian Rainbows
1 African Dwarf Frog
1 Khuli Loach
1 Cory Cat
1 Upside Down Catfish
2.0 Fire Guramis

uhh... I think that is it.

Replies (8)

Rob Jenkins Oct 20, 2003 05:15 AM

I built one a while ago and it works great. You may have to modify how you space the shelves on this one. I have leopard and fattail geckos in mine, so the 1/8" gap above each tub is not an issue. In addition to this link, here's how I wired the heat tape.

How I built my rack

Let me know if there's anything I left out.
-----
Rob Jenkins
Have you seen the GeckoCam?
Buy Geckos Here
Email Me

rudedogsurfrat Oct 20, 2003 10:38 AM

how do you keep the shelves even?
would it work to put the boxes in and assemble the rack upside down so there is no gaps for small snakes?
I did not understand what you do with the pegboard, heat tape, and that shiny metal tape.
what size boxes do this shelf system hold and how do you provide ventillation.
Is a bought rack the same price?

Thanks

Rudy
-----
0.1 Rubber Boa
1.1 Eastern Hognose Snakes
2.3 Western Hognose Snakes
1.0 Durango Mountain Kingsnake
1.1 Woma's (new!)
Spadefoot
Black Knobbed Sawback
Northern Diamondback
Florida Redbellied Slider
Western Painted
Southern Painted
1.0 African Hedgehog
1.0 Sulcata
2.1 Leopard (Babcocki) 1.0 borrowed (thanks Bobby)
2 Plecos
2 Silver Dollars
3 Bosemian Rainbows
1 African Dwarf Frog
1 Khuli Loach
1 Cory Cat
1 Upside Down Catfish
2.0 Fire Guramis

uhh... I think that is it.

Rob Jenkins Oct 20, 2003 04:33 PM

>>how do you keep the shelves even?

I started at the top and worked down. I attached the top flush with the ends of the sides, then I used a blanket box and the pegboard as a spacer when I screwed the next shelf in. The clamp(s) kept the shelf secured to the boxes, secured to the top. Then I worked my way down, clamping to each shelf above. Chris shows a good way to space the shelves with pieces of melamine, but since I didn't even have a power saw when I put it together, I couldn't make those pieces. I improvised and it worked well.

>>would it work to put the boxes in and assemble the rack upside down so there is no gaps for small snakes?

Yes, but as Chris points out it'd be better to have a small gap than no gap and the shelf be too tight. You can work with other materials to lessen the gap, but once the shelf is screwed in, you can't make it looser if too tight.

>>I did not understand what you do with the pegboard, heat tape, and that shiny metal tape.

I only used the pegboard as a spacer to create the gap above each box. I also wanted to make sure the boxes weren't too tight to cause too much friction on the heat tape because I didn't recess the heat tape into a groove in the shelf. The metal tape is simply holding the edges of the heat tape down to the melamine shelf.

>>what size boxes do this shelf system hold and how do you provide ventillation.

The blanket boxes are about 22" wide, 16" deep and 6" high. The sweater boxes are about 11" wide, 16" deep and 6" high, so you can put one blanket or two sweater boxes on each level. Because there is a small gap on top of each box, there's ventilation there and in the many, many holes I put in the top side of each box with a soldering iron. Works great for smooth, clean holes.

>>Is a bought rack the same price?

It depends on what material and who makes it. The plastic racks are typically quite a bit more and melamine is a little bit more. Check out the dealers here on Kingsnake to compare prices. If you're unsure what you're doing, afraid of tools, or clueless about wiring heat tape, you may be better off with a plastic rack. I hear good things about the ones sold by e2macpets.com. I really like my Boaphile sideways blanket box rack, but it was over $350.

Apparently the original post is not available right now, so here's another one - forums.kingsnake.com/viewarch.php?id=24936,25044&key=2003
-----
Rob Jenkins
Have you seen the GeckoCam?
Buy Geckos Here
Email Me

chris_harper2 Oct 20, 2003 09:33 AM

I've built about every type of rack imaginable. I've even built extremely complex racks for turtles, chamelons, and diurnal lizards that required screen tops, lighting, misting systems, etc. I've also built racks that were equally simple.

I'll post three decent links below. You'll have to cut and paste them into your browser.

First of all, the gap for hognose snakes (except for possibly Lystrophis - I've not worked with those) does not have to be very tight. Of the species you have listed below, the kingsnake and the womas (if the womas are still hatchlings) will be the best escape artists. But I gather this rack is going to be geared towards a group of North American Hognose (Heterodon spp.) and not the misc. other snakes in your collection.

I could go on and on about building racks, but I have a few simple tips.

1) Racks can be built sturdily by only using simple edge joints. In other words, dado or rabbet joints are not absolutely necessary. If anything they confuse the measurement calculations of the average rack builder. I write this, of course, assuming you'll be using plywood, melamine or some combination of the above for your rack. If using plastic there is some merit to utilizing a structural joint.

2) Use two melamine or plywood spacers to set the gap between your tiers. I believe this is best shown in the finegtps link listed below.

In another link the box itself is shown being used as a spacer. This is not a great idea from my experience.

3) Always err on the side of too much gap rather than too little space. It's easier to fill in a gap with thin sheets of material, or to leave that space for under tank heaters, etc, vs. having to add space later. This is by far the biggest mistake novice rack builders make. Many keepers build a rack, move it into a warm herp room only to find that the heat of the room drys out the material and causes it to shrink. I've actually heard of boxes becoming seized in the tiers and had to be forced out.

As far as heating, I've always avoided offering advice in this area due to the potential for disaster. Besides, many here are more experienced with flexwatt and are better able to offer advice.

Lastly, I'll attach a picture of a rack I built for $40. I used melamine bull-nosed shelving from Menards for the shelves. The sides are cheap, 1/2" plywood. In this picture I was only using the rack to hold supplies and mealworms so it did not have a back. When I did have a back on it I simply cut a piece of foil-covered styrene insulation and attached in it place.

For heat I always used Cobra UTH pads. The look like heat tape this is already pre-wired. It is my understanding these are safer than Flex-Watt, although more expensive.

http://www.finegtps.com/Racks.htm

http://www.arbreptiles.com/cages/rack.html

http://www.kingsnake.com/obsoleta/projects.htm

rudedogsurfrat Oct 20, 2003 10:42 AM

I don't understand #2 where you talk about using melamine for spacing.

Rudy
-----
0.1 Rubber Boa
1.1 Eastern Hognose Snakes
2.3 Western Hognose Snakes
1.0 Durango Mountain Kingsnake
1.1 Woma's (new!)
Spadefoot
Black Knobbed Sawback
Northern Diamondback
Florida Redbellied Slider
Western Painted
Southern Painted
1.0 African Hedgehog
1.0 Sulcata
2.1 Leopard (Babcocki) 1.0 borrowed (thanks Bobby)
2 Plecos
2 Silver Dollars
3 Bosemian Rainbows
1 African Dwarf Frog
1 Khuli Loach
1 Cory Cat
1 Upside Down Catfish
2.0 Fire Guramis

uhh... I think that is it.

chris_harper2 Oct 20, 2003 12:10 PM

Did you read the finegtp link like I suggested?

Here are direct links the the pictures on that site. You'll need to cut and paste them into your browser.

In the first picture you'll see the cut melamine spacers on either side of a small rubbermaid. In the second picture you'll see how the builder uses these spacers to set two shelves the exact distance apart before nailing or screwing the shelf into the side.

Then go back and read the original page again. The same pictures are there but perhaps you did not read the whole thing.

http://www.finegtps.com/Images/rackspacers.jpg

http://www.finegtps.com/Images/rackass2.jpg

In my opinion, use of spacers such as these are the best way to build a rack accurately. Dados and rabbets are equally good, possibly better, but probably not necessary. Especially if you don't have a lot of tools at your disposal.

rudedogsurfrat Oct 20, 2003 08:12 PM

it seems like they may cost about the same in the long run, except the rack would use less space and easier cleanup. The terrarium is good for display.
-----
0.1 Rubber Boa
1.1 Eastern Hognose Snakes
2.3 Western Hognose Snakes
1.0 Durango Mountain Kingsnake
1.1 Woma's (new!)
Spadefoot
Black Knobbed Sawback
Northern Diamondback
Florida Redbellied Slider
Western Painted
Southern Painted
1.0 African Hedgehog
1.0 Sulcata
2.1 Leopard (Babcocki) 1.0 borrowed (thanks Bobby)
2 Plecos
2 Silver Dollars
3 Bosemian Rainbows
1 African Dwarf Frog
1 Khuli Loach
1 Cory Cat
1 Upside Down Catfish
2.0 Fire Guramis

uhh... I think that is it.

chris_harper2 Oct 21, 2003 09:56 AM

Racks are most ideal for small to medium burrowing colubrids. If a snake is going to be hidden most of the time the pleasure of having it on display in a terrarium is diminished, in my opinion. Provided the snake in question can comfortably live in a sweater box or smaller, the box is easily removed and taken to a sink for cleaning.

If you're breeding and have a large group of a given species, lidless racks are ideal for doing water changes quickly and/or feeding. I used to keep a large group of snakes in lidless rack systems. I would feed them on Sunday evenings and then Monday mornings I could quickly go through and removed all the uneaten rodents and take them out to the trash (local garbage service picked up Monday mornings). If I had had every snake in a terrarium it would have taken much longer to remove all the uneaten rodents.

As snakes get larger the advantages diminish, in my opinion. If the boxes are large you often end up cleaning them while they're half open which is not much more of an advantage over a terrarium. Also, large boxes tend to flex a bit when in a rack and the efficiency of use goes down slightly.

But provided the species in question does not require special lighting, lidless rack systems almost always conserve a tremendous amount of space. I can't remember the exact numbers but I once had 45 snakes or so in less than 6 linear feet of wall space. Try doing that with terrariums.

Racks are also very engery efficient heat wise.

Many species also seem to do better when kept in "tight" lidless racks vs. more open terraria. There are numerous anecdotes supporting this from the private sector and from zoos.

On the downside, racks often don't have as much ventilation as terrariums and quickly grow mold. For species that spend a lot of time crawling in out out of their water bowls this can lead to a lot of mold growth. But there is no excuse for this. Small section of the box can be routed out and screen can be attached with rivets and hot glue to increase ventilation.

Hope this helps.

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