Reptile & Amphibian Forums

There was an interesting point brought up about hibernation. There are species that hibernate in the part of their range where they have to and do not hibernate in the part of their range where they don't have to. The point was made that you should know what part of their range the animals you obtain come from. This made me think of the question in regards to captive raised animals. If you are not considering reproducing the animal where is the benefit of hibernating the animal? Does the risk outweigh the benefit?
Ed

I think you have a good point, Ed. We can't assume that every tortoise that "can" be hibernated actually does hibernate in every area of their natural range--or, for that matter, for the same length of time. Is it harmful to a tortoise to hibernate for 2 months if it would naturally hibernate for 4 months? Most people who keep snakes say that you don't have to cool the snakes unless you're breeding, although some snakes will cool themselves down anyway. It doesn't generally seem harmful to them to keep them up over the winter, but there's controversy there, too. I think it ties into the whole notion of attempting to rear tortoises/reptiles in a natural state--there's so many variables that we may well be better off going with what seems to work, rather than being too obsessive about what is "natural."

BTW, I was reading a Gerald Durrell book recently, a memoir of time he spent as a boy on the island of Corfu, and he describes witnessing the emergence of a number of Testudo ibera from hibernation. I didn't think it got cold enough in the Greek isles to induce hibernation. Anyway, it was interesting.
-----
Sohni
(aka Jeannie, but other people have similar names, too confusing, so I switched)
0.1 Baja de L.A. Rosy Boa (Bella)
0.1 Okeetee Corn Snake (Bess)
1.1 Rubber Boas (Esther & Isaiah)
1.0 Leopard Gecko (George)
0.0.1 Hermann's Tortoise (Moxie)
2.0 Adopted DSH Cats (Amos & Silas)
1.0 Rescued English Springer Spaniel (Jimmy)
and...
2.0 Kids (Riley & Noah) w/ 0.0.1 California King
Snake (Rex), 1.0 Mexican Rosy Boa (Lucas), 0.1
Leopard Gecko (Geico)
1.0 Husband (no pets, just us, lol)

What species of tortoises hibernate in some of their range but not in other areas?

Testudo greaca and Gopherus agassizi to name 2 right off the bat. I'm sure there are others that do not hibernate throughout their range. Now if you would like to throw in Chelonians, in general, I'll bet there are many more.
Ed

Let's assume that all Chelonians hibernate using a similar adaptation and not just limit it to tortoises. Platysternon is one such species that has a range that extends into areas that do not experience a winter and they also extend high up into mountainous regions that do experience a winter. Without knowning the source of your big headed turtle it 'could' be wrong to assume they hibernate in the wild. Turtles (including tortoises) have been around millions of years due to their incredible potential to adapt to many different climates and habitats. Diamondbacks can be raised in fresh or brakish water from hatchlings without any ill effects. Turtles that naturally may hibernate can be kept in captivity with no hibernation at all without any ill effects. It has been suggested it affects lifespan (due to the winter rest) but this cannot be tested scientifically at the present time due to the long lifespan of most tortoises and due to variables in their captive environments. The one area that I see hibernation as beneficial is breeding. Tortoises that hibernate in the wild have adapted their biological clocks to correlate with the weather. This is so their eggs have the best chance possible for hatching success. The tortoises body (biologically) feels that it is safe to breed and lay eggs after the winter period. Captive animals can adapt to lay eggs and breed without this winter dormant period. It may be that the clutches are smaller and the hatching success is reduced. So if you know the locality of your animal and you are experienced with hibernation, do it! It will probably be beneficial for breeding and it could be shown to be beneficial to lifespan in the future (at present time it cannot be shown).
Best wishes,
Mike N.

Several times now you have mentioned "risk" when it comes to hibernation. It is no wonder you are afraid to hibernate your tortoises. What is this big risk you keep talking about? I have had no problems with hibernation whatsover in over 15 years of keeping all kinds of torts. The secret is in the refrigeration.

Admit it. You have never allowed a tortoise to hibernate, have you? Try it and you will stop being so afraid.

Hibernation can be risky, namely for those animals that are allowed to hibernate naturally in outside enclosures. I know several people with large collections that let their animals (namely box turtles and NA wood turtles) hibernate naturally outside. I've seen a turtle that almost lost its leg because it went into hibernation with a scratch on the leg, but during the winter it turned into an infected, swollen limb that needed major medical intervention.

I also know of several vets that are against hibernation unless for breeding purposes, because they feel that too few people keep animals in the proper conditions year round, making hibernation risky because animals may not be conditioned properly before going into hibernation (underweight, nutritional deficincies, ect.).

Katrina

Hibernation can be risky, namely for those animals that are allowed to hibernate naturally in outside enclosures. I know several people with large collections that let their animals (namely box turtles and NA wood turtles) hibernate naturally outside. I've seen a turtle that almost lost its leg because it went into hibernation with a scratch on the leg, but during the winter it turned into an infected, swollen limb that needed major medical intervention.

I also know of several vets that are against hibernation unless for breeding purposes, because they feel that too few people keep animals in the proper conditions year round, making hibernation risky because animals may not be conditioned properly before going into hibernation (underweight, nutritional deficincies, ect.).

That is why you must make sure the animal is healthy before you allow it to hibernate. That is not that hard to do. If a scratch turned into such a major medical problem, the turtle may not have been healthy to begin with. Malnutrition, perhaps. That's why I use the fridge, they are better protected, and the temperature stays just right so they don't burn up all of their body fat and have problems.

I don't buy the argument that you shouldn't hibernate because the animal may not be healthy enough to live through it. If you can't keep the animal in the proper conditions...DON'T KEEP IT. Buy a goldfish or hamster instead. If the animal is healthy, there really is very little risk. Just because people are too lazy and ignorant to know how to keep the animal healthy does not mean the animal magically does not need to hibernate. It still does. Learn or get a guppy.

i guess you're right.

I've successfully hibernated Desert Tortoises, box turtles and various Kingsnakes.
Keep monitoring the lists on KS and Yahoo around January on and you'll see a good number of posts that run something like this... 'Help, I decided to hibernate my tortoise and...' Hibernating is not an easy task to pass along the instructions to. This is why I always suggest finding a Chelonian keeper in the specific location we are talking about an find out how they do it.
Ed