Reptile & Amphibian Forums

my 1 year old female nosey be for the past week has been spending some time down on the rocks i has in the pot of the plants in her cage so i intially put a smallish(15x8x7deep)container filled with potting soil in her cage between her two plants. she went down once to stick her nose in the soil and after that only used the conatiner as a pathway to go between the to plants in her cage. so saturday i got a bigger container(17x12x12 deep) and spread the two plants out and placed into her cage. pretty much the same thing ahas been happening, except today she first went and stuck her nose in the soil and then went to one of the potted plants and started digging in the rocks. she is not gravid just has eggs inside. my question is do i change anything or leave her alone?

dennis

I don't really understand the part where you said "she's not gravid, just has eggs inside." Are you SURE she was never bred before you got her? I know at that show Kammers had 2 females for sale, a 14 month old and a 12 month old and I was pretty interested and said "She's a virgin right?" and Ed said no..... I was like.... Ok.... But she was being caged with a male who was also for sale and he said that those were the two that had bred together, and the cage said on it "14 month Ambanjas, Anarion bloodline, $400 each." Which I also didn't understand because if they're from the same bloodine and the same age... You know what I'm getting to. I STILL believe firmly in removing the female from her cage to lay. If you have the enthusiasm, try that. Leave her completely for several hours and see what happens. There's also the VERY rare possibility of the female laying infertile eggs, like a veiled will.
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Tyler Stewart
Las Vegas NV

i thought captive female panthers cycled every 6-8 weeks? maybe i misunderstood. and the guy i bought her from said she was a virgin. i'm going to email him for clarification.

dennis

They don't necessarily cycle every 6-8 weeks, but after they breed and lay a clutch of eggs, they will lay another fertile clutch, which is usually 6-8 weeks later. If they're not bred, female panthers don't usually lay infertile eggs, unless maybe they were fed way more than they should be fed. That's more of a veiled thing. I'm not sure I've even heard of it happening, though I'm sure it has. After the female lays 2 clutches of eggs from 1 mating, she's not going to lay again until she's bred again. Laying without breeding in your situation would make me think she wasn't a virgin.
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Tyler Stewart
Las Vegas NV

what do you think about her "going through the motions" like she has been doing IF she is a virgin?

dennis

Do you mean going through the motions as in trying to dig?
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Tyler Stewart
Las Vegas NV

today she's done nothing at all. just stayed up top.

dennis

If she's going through those motions, let her do it. See what she's doing. If she looks obviously gravid, maybe you're one of those rare cases of a female panther laying without breeding. We'll all have to document it! If she did lay eggs, after about 2 weeks you would know if they were fertile. Infertile eggs die by then. Did you ever check with the place you got her if she was a virgin? Seems odd to me that anyone would keep a female panther for a year, never breed her then sell her. I dunno. Most people only throw down hundreds of dollars for a female panther with no impressive colors only to hopefully breed them.
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Tyler Stewart
Las Vegas NV

N/P
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Tyler Stewart
Las Vegas NV

she weighed 56 grams about a week and a half ago.

dennis

For the record, my 9-10 month old females when they're about to lay weigh around 70-75 grams. After they lay, they get down to around 45. I kinda keep track of them and whenever their weight is getting close to 70, I keep an extra eye on them. At 56, I probably wouldn't worry yet, especially if she's a year old. She'll probably be over 70 grams before she lays. They can lay early though, and there's variables to everything. In the month before they lay though, they gain weight fast (around 20-25 grams), so weigh her again and if she's gaining fast she's probably got something going on. If she's the same or 2 grams higher than a week and a half ago, she's probably not gravid. Even their stomach content/stool status can change the weight by a few grams.
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Tyler Stewart
Las Vegas NV

You said "rarely" that they will lay infertil clutches... were you also referring to veilds? I know they lay infertile eggs, but rarely or is it common? (for vields)
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Gabriel - Montreal - Ding.
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I meant that female panthers will rarely (if ever) lay infertile clutches without being bred. Veileds will do it actually quite a bit if not bred. Mine would have but I bred her before she got the chance and every egg was fertile. Panthers will though, lay some infertile eggs in a clutch with some fertile eggs if they are bred, lay a clutch, then lay another clutch from the first mating, since over this time of sperm storage sometimes not all the eggs will get fertilized. Understand? My female once laid only 12 eggs from stored sperm and only 2 of them were fertile, but as of now, the two are doing great. Veileds will lay infertile clutches usually if they are fed more than they should be. Not that it's a bad thing, but if you feed a female veiled similar to an adult male veiled (4 days a week, and not too much even then) then her chances of laying an infertile clutch is reduced alot. Even at that, they can sometimes still lay infertile eggs.
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Tyler Stewart
Las Vegas NV