Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here is the way I'm keeping him....

10 gallon tank

full spectrum uv lighting from an 8.0 bulb

Basking spot is at least 95 during the day (was told to leave it this way until he's a little older...by a breeder who's been doing this stuff since he was 16....he's now 45....so I'm going to trust him on that one.

He has water, vegetables (bok choy, kale, collared greens)

He is not sick since I took him to vet and checked out fine.

He did not come from a pet store as pet stores sell [bleep]ty stock.

He came from a breeder who does not inbreed and has healthy stock...he would not sell sick or weak animals...that's the way he is...(known him for a long time)

He will eat 1 cricket a day (med sized...I said earlier "big" but med sized is kind big compared to his head...he can easily swallow them and has no trouble digesting)

I think I might try pinheads to see what happens......Any other insights????

Maybe you misunderstood your breeder friend. Usually the norm is smaller beardies need a higher temperature to digest all the food they are supposed to be eating. Most responses I've seen from the numerous, experienced experts in this forum say a baby (or even real small due to lack of care) should have basking temps at 110-115. Keep them where you have them and your beardie will continue to only eat one med cricket until it dies either from impaction or lack of nutrition.

How long have you trusted your friends advice on temp? How many beardies have you had die from too big of a cricket? You are going to have to trust the people here when they give you advice.

If you are skeptical of an answer find all the care sheets you can find on beardies, look for your topic and use the advice that is most common. I'm sure you will find 99.99% of advice on size of crickets and temperatures for small beardies will be the same as what you have been given in your last post.

Go ahead and try something else to see if it works but learning a lesson by having an animal suffer a long, painful death and then feeling horrible because you didn't listen is a hard road.

Get a digital thermometer if you don't have one (the round one's are no good) and try raising the basking temps. Make sure you get crickets smaller than the width between it's eyes. Will it really be that difficult to try for a few days and see if that helps?

If you can't afford a digital thermometer I'll send you one. Email me direct. Now, is that enough to convince you these people know what they're talking about?
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Rob

Hey, Rob, thanks for saying what alot of us wanted to say.

I am new at this too and I know the basics. I learn more from this forum everyday. I am open to the advice.

I sure hope this beardie's keeper takes the advice given and feeds that baby. Mine doesn't eat much but he still puts away at least 20 large crix a day along with lots of greens and mine is 5 months old (12 inches long)....He loves his basking temps at about 111 degrees.

Thanks so very much for saying it for us!!

Also I do not disagree the the temperature should be a little higher but I do not think that it is the sole purpose of the problem, I'll put it up to 110 tonight and see what happens. I can afford a thermometer, don't worry about that...They're only 6 bucks at walmart

That was kind of a rush! Anyway, thank you for your comments.
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Rob

I don't consider myself to be an expert but I have successfully bred bearded dragons and raised them this way for at least 4 years. I've actually never had this problem before.

Never once have I had a problem with impaction. Impaction from a med sized cricket (1/2 inch long) I could only see happening for a hatchling.

This breeder has been working with reptiles since he was 16 and has a Masters degree in Herpetology. I think he's 45 which would give him over 20 years experiance.

This baby does not have a problem with digestion. If he eats in the morning, he poops it out within 8-10 hours.

He climbs, basks on his own...eats vegetables and has been taken to the vet...I'm convinced he's healthy.

Clearly I wouldn't believe ever word on this forum to be solid gold since we apparently have people posting that they keep tokays with leopard geckos and frogs in the same 30 gal tank.

Not to say that some words of advice aren't very good or true but I wouldn't base a book off the information in these forums.

I'm no expert but I highly doubt everyone here has a degree in herpetology. I'll trust someone with 8 years of professional schooling and more than 20 years of experiance over a post ona forum any day.

I would think that these forums are for basic knowledge, suggestions, and fun...not to make the next standard University Herpetology text book.

I wonder why people are so hostile in these forums...it makes me kinda edgey...I thought these things were for fun not to vent on other people with decent questions...maybe I was wrong.

I don't consider us hostile. I consider us to be worried about your beardie. Something isn't right. Have you thought of feeding him some babyfood or some live culture yogurt to stimulate his appetite? If you try babyfood, use something like turkey and gravy or chicken and gravy.. Velcro, our 5 month old has never not eaten his crix, but there have been days that he would only eat 3 or 4. I would then supplement with something else.

I think out of the advice and my own decisions this is the plan...

First thing...he's going to get a hotter bulb...It'll raise the temp to 110-115.
I've got a digital thermometer and Walmart sells them cheap. (6 bucks)

Then I'm going to feed many, many pinheads and see if he accepts them.

I'll see what happens in the next few days...and I'll letcha know.

Thanks for the quick replies...and advice.

n/p

That to large of prey has paralyzed and even killed some young dragons.
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Tom and Jackie Vandiver

Bearded Dragons and More!

and we love bearded dragons...
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Tom and Jackie Vandiver

Bearded Dragons and More!

"I'll trust someone with 8 years of professional schooling and more than 20 years of experiance over a post ona forum any day".
Then why are you coming asking for help here??

You said " Impaction from a med sized cricket (1/2 inch long) I could only see happening for a hatchling".
If your baby is 5" long like you say it IS hatchling size

Please try 1/4" crickets, it will get lots more nourishment from many smaller crickets then one cricket that is too large.
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TheClassyLizard

He's not a hatchling...He was 12-14 weeks when we got him in July so he'd be at least 6 months...if that's a hatchling I stand corrected...5 inches was a guess too (sorry) He's really more like 8. I'm a bad at estimating.

Also I come here fun and to see what other people have to say...sometimes other people have good suggestions.

The 5" size you mistakenly stated was what I was referring to.
It doesn't matter how old a bearded is, you have to feed them according to size (not age) and 5" would be much more near hatchling size then a 6 month old dragon. At 2.5 mo. my hatchlings were 11", so yours would still have to be considered a baby.
Good Luck ...
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TheClassyLizard

"I don't consider myself to be an expert but I have successfully bred bearded dragons and raised them this way for at least 4 years. I've actually never had this problem before."

Is there a chance you've been lucky or have had not as healthy but only "getting by" dragons?

"This breeder has been working with reptiles since he was 16 and has a Masters degree in Herpetology. I think he's 45 which would give him over 20 years experiance."

Those are some awesome credentials. Has he had much experience with bearded dragons in particular? A lot of herpetologists wouldn't know the specifics of all reptiles.

"This baby does not have a problem with digestion. If he eats in the morning, he poops it out within 8-10 hours."

Is there a chance the poop is about as nutritious as what it was when it went in? Maybe he's processing the food but at about 50%.

"He climbs, basks on his own...eats vegetables and has been taken to the vet...I'm convinced he's healthy."

Reptiles may seem healthy but part of their defense against natural predators is to mask illness or injury. Most of the time the signs will not show up until the problems have progressed to a high level.

"Clearly I wouldn't believe ever word on this forum to be solid gold since we apparently have people posting that they keep tokays with leopard geckos and frogs in the same 30 gal tank."

Point taken. That's why you spend some time reading the posts and responses and form an opinion on who you should listen to and who you shouldn't. Unfortunately you may not have much time to do that now so you need to take the majority.

"I'm no expert but I highly doubt everyone here has a degree in herpetology. I'll trust someone with 8 years of professional schooling and more than 20 years of experiance over a post ona forum any day."

No offense to those with the education but all of have issues. Is there a chance your friend may be a bit insecure and wants to look like a genius?

"I wonder why people are so hostile in these forums...it makes me kinda edgey...I thought these things were for fun not to vent on other people with decent questions...maybe I was wrong."

People are not trying to be hostile, they simply care about these animals. To have someone ask for help and receive good, proven advice then argue about it or ignore it is going to make people a little edgy.

I'm guessing you will probably not get many more responses to your problem here since everything everyone has already said is basically right on. On that note good luck with your beardie and I truly hope it does not take much more experience to realize you really are not doing the best thing for your beardie.
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Rob

n/p
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Rob

This breeder has had beardies for quite some time...i think since the late eighties. I've known him for quite some time and I think he knows a lot about beardies...corn snakes are his speciality though...and most geckos.

10 years longer than they are known to have been in the US.

Please don't take offense at this, but its a fact, ,most snake people do not make good lizard people.

I bet over 1/2 the rehab failure to thrive dragons we get in come from snake breeders and its the same story each time.....they believe their husbandry is right, yet we have never failed to have a dragon not only put on weight rapidly but also start growing in length when they have been stunted for months.

Two that came in July 1 came from a good snake breeder, they just were not growing. They were 34 and 38 grams, 2 months later they were both over 200 gram and had grown several inches at a year old. Grimdog has one I sent him, he can verify this as he continued raising the one after we had her for a few weeks and she is a sibling to the one we still have

The snake people are probably like.. 'I have to feed it every DAY? And look how wide it it, it SHOULD be taking medium rats no problem, but all it will eat is this stupid green stuff...'
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Peter: It's OK, I'll handle it. I read a book about something like this.
Brian: Are you sure it was a book? Are you sure it wasn't NOTHING?

I've experienced so far a beardie takes a lot more time than a snake does. I can imagine hatchlings are probably about the same if not worse.

I feed my ball python once every 6 days then leave her completely alone for the next 2-3 days while she digests her pray. About the only daily maintenance is........where there is really nothing that has to be done everyday. Water gets changed every other day and the substrate in different sections about every 2 weeks or sooner if she goes.

My snake is much, much easier to take care of than my beardies.
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Rob

No one has been raising or breeding dragons for 29 years.

The basking spot should be hotter (105 - 115 degrees) for little guys then cooler like 90 - 95 degrees for adults.

If he is eating one medium cricket a day he is not getting enough food. He should be eating many 1/4 inch crickets a day and will get much more out of many little crickets than from one big cricket.

And the crickets he or she eats should be on longer than the width of your dragon’s head across the eyes.

I doubt very much if your dragon would recognize pinheads as a food source.
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Tom and Jackie Vandiver

Bearded Dragons and More!

no longer NOT on longer

Crickets should be no longer than the width of your dragons head across the eyes.

Your dragon should be eating between 1/4 inch and 1/2 inch crickets depending on his size.
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Tom and Jackie Vandiver

Bearded Dragons and More!

I didn't sayspecifically bearded dragons........he's been working with reptiles for that long. I think he got his first breeding pair of bearded dragons in the late eighties.

But almost all reptiles are different.

Some need only room temperature 60's to 70's no basking spot others need a basking spot of 140 degrees F and there are many other deiffereces as well.

I would still go with the 1/4 - 1/2 inch crickets, pinheads are to small for even hatchlings.

Good Luck.
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Tom and Jackie Vandiver

Bearded Dragons and More!

I have several pointers to give you that may help - but I think others here on this forum have already given you the same advice.

>>10 gallon tank >full spectrum uv lighting from an 8.0 bulb >Basking spot is at least 95 during the day (was told to leave it this way until he's a little older...by a breeder who's been doing this stuff since he was 16....he's now 45....so I'm going to trust him on that one. >He has water, vegetables (bok choy, kale, collared greens) >He will eat 1 cricket a day (med sized...I said earlier "big" but med sized is kind big compared to his head...he can easily swallow them and has no trouble digesting>I think I might try pinheads to see what happens......Any other insights????
Beautiful Dragons

Here's my opinion...

"10 gallon tank" - great!

"full spectrum uv lighting from an 8.0 bulb" - also great!

"Basking spot is at least 95 during the day (was told to leave it this way until he's a little older...by a breeder who's been doing this stuff since he was 16....he's now 45....so I'm going to trust him on that one." - It is well documented that beardies have to get their body temp up to 95 degrees or higher to digest their food. That means that their basking spot should be at least 100, or better yet ... 110 for babies or young dragons. Do you have a bearded dragon book like "The Bearded Dragon Manual" that says this? If not, it would be a wise investment to buy one. They sell at amazon.com for less than $20.

"He has water, vegetables (bok choy, kale, collared greens)" - Good, except all three contain goitrogens. (Goitrogens are foods which suppress thyroid function and can induce hypothyroidism and depress thyroidal function.) Remember, variety is the key. Try adding some mustard, dandelion, or turnip greens.

"He will eat 1 cricket a day (med sized...I said earlier "big" but med sized is kind big compared to his head...he can easily swallow them and has no trouble digesting)" - This is very very dangerous. I can't tell you how important it is to make sure that anything your beardie eats is smaller than the space between his eyes. Otherwise you risk impaction, paralysis, and death. Is it really worth it?

"I think I might try pinheads to see what happens......Any other insights????" - I am currently feeding two 5 inch long dragons (2 months old) and they get 2 week old (1/4 inch long) crickets. Pinheads will be way too small.

Veronica
Beautiful Dragons

Thank you for the advice. I'm going to raise the temperature and try pinheads...he's actually about 7-8 inches long I estimated wrong...measured him today.

He also now weights about 18 grams the 10 grams was an old weight from a while ago.

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Life is what happens when you are making other plans.......

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Life is what happens when you are making other plans.......

umm, he needs to be eating wwwaaayyy more than 1 Cricket a day!!

Try offering him about 20 Crickets, along with a salad and some pellets.

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-Lauren

~ Lauren's Lizards ~

groups.yahoo.com/group/LaurensLizards

A 8" dragon is very small for being 6months old. My bearded dragon was around 3 months old and over 8 inches long. She is now nearly 18" long at 8 months, that's over twice her length in 5 months and nearly 10 times her weight. (she was around 30-40 grams when I bought her, now she is pushing 300g).

There is deffinitely something not right with your dragon. We have pinpointed the problem with yours is due to temperature and too large sized prey feed infrequently. You should feed it 1/4" crickets twice a day as much as it will eat in 10-15 minutes. Clear out any uneating crickets (or better yet, feed in another container). Offer mixed greens once or twice a day. Dust crickets with vitamines and calcium with D3 every other day.

If this doesn't work or your dragon doesn't eat more than one or two crickets a meal, you may need to give him some sort of probiotic, or diluted gaterade to help boost her appetite.

The only other thing that could be the problem is genetic. What size are his parents and siblings? Are they all very small? Or are they closer to the 18-24" most dragons get? If the breeder buddy of yours has all small dragons, then it could be poor stock animals, or they may not be Inland Bearded Dragons at all, instead maybe Rankin's Dragons.