Reptile & Amphibian Forums

"When the ODNR working group met in 199 to develop the standards for the new law no one in the group had ever seen a pit tag before except the ODNR consultant who recommended their usage, Doug Wynn. Doug Wynn is a Westerville North school teacher who has been working with the Eastern Plains Garter and the Eastern Massaauga Rattlesnake. Wynn told the group that he could safely implant a snake as small as eight inches. The four gauge syringe used to inplant the pit tag is a large in diameter as any native eight inch snake.

The Eastern Plains Garter snake populations have crashed since implanting began about six years ago. I spoke to Dr. Norm Reichenbach who has been working with this population T.s. radix that I identified in 1974. Norm was at a loss to explain the decline. All studies conducted on the health of the habitat showed positive results.

Several field research assistants have told me that they have never recovered a snake once it has been implanted. Over two hundred T.s.radix were implanted and taken to the Columbus Zoo for a captive breeding project. They were all dead in less than thirty days. Pit tags were not designed to be used on reptiles, the manufacturer now recommends that only a vet perform this surgical procedure. Given the training of most vets even then it would not be safe. For liabilities purposes the manufacturer wants to put the vet between them and a lawsuit.
_________________".
Terry Wilkins

This is a post by Terry Wilkins, manager of the National Herpetological Lobby, a newly formed organization to help defend the rights of reptile owners in ohio and nationwide. If you would like further supportive data you may go to this website:

http://www.noahonline.net/mtlog/archives/in_the_news_herp_related/noah_letter_to_odnrjuly_2000.html#more

Please donot expect alot of extra additives about this website or the functions just yet. This is a newly founded organization and has only been in full function for about 5 weeks. There have been alot of people claiming that they want to see scholarships and free educational shows for herpetology students and so on which is a respectable request but the bottom line is in order to further support our future herpetologists and give these free educational shows and scholarships and further things we need support from YOU. All I am asking for now is for you to visit this website:

www.nationalherplobby.org
talk to us and tell us how you feel on the subjects that could be affecting you. You donot have to be in Ohio for these laws to be affecting you. There is also a national agenda as well. All we ask is for the members here to sign up for free and talk about these new laws that are being passed. Thank You for taking your time in reading this post and hopefull we will get the opportunity to talk to you and find out about your feelings.

Chris

on the general snake forum that I recommend anyone peruse before diving in with this group.

Not passing judgement here, just suggesting people get all the facs.
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Chris Harrison

...he was beginning to realize he was the creature of a god that appreciated the discomfort of his worshippers - W. Somerset Maugham

I am not suggesting "diving" in with anything. I am simply asking people to sign up in the www.nationalherplobby.org website and TALK about their feeling toward the issues. I am not asking and nor is anyone else from the board asking that ANYONE send in their dues for membership as soon as they can. We are simply trying to see other peoples feelings on Ohio's newly formed native reptile and amphibian laws. EVERYONE automatically ASSUMES that this organization is a profit organization desperately trying to get people sign their checks and hand them over. WE ARE NOT ASKING FOR MONEY. Membership is possible IF anyone is INTERESTED. But foremost we are trying to hear other peoples views and not just the same ones we continue to hear. We are trying to get this as widespread as we can. The more people that get involved and share their views the more understanding and more open we can be in doing OUR part. If you read all of my posts then you would see that I am not trying to convince people to write out a check and join the NHL. I am simply trying to get people to register (FREE OF CHARGE, JUST LIKE THEY DID TO POST HERE IN THE KINGSNAKE FORUMS) and speak their mind. The same rules apply in our forums as do the ones here. We would appreciate insultive and vulgar language to be kept out of the conversations. I am sure we can get the ball rolling with your help to share your views on the laws and regulations with us (ONCE AGAIN COMPLETELY FREE OF CHARGE). IF IT HELPS MAKE PEOPLE FEEL MORE SECURE: KEEP ALL CREDIT CARDS, CHECKS, MONEY ORDERS, ETC. IN YOUR OWN POCKETS. IT IS NOT REQUESTED OR REQUIRED IN ANYTHING ON THE WEBSITE.
After you have learned more about us and our cause and think you might be interested in being a member there of course will be membership information available. It will not be a topic of conversation being we are looking into trying to understand other herp owners views and feelings. Thanks for your time and hope to see you in the forums.

Chris

I was making any implication about joining financially, I was just suggesting that before people get involved with the organization they might want to understand the facts about -

1. the goals, principles and tenets of said organization and

2. the history of its foundation. Why now? Why this group?

I would have suggested the same thing about the last time someone tried this (the NRAAC), although in that case it was a large national organization with state chapters.
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Chris Harrison

...he was beginning to realize he was the creature of a god that appreciated the discomfort of his worshippers - W. Somerset Maugham

I completely understand. I was just stating moreless that I didn't want people to think that all we were doing were just trying to throw their money at us. We just want to hear peoples opinions on the website so we can improve things and make it more satisfactory. We of course will be growing and sooner will be adding more options and missions statements to our agenda. But for now we are just trying to let people know that we exist. I understand why you would be a little skeptical right now. You have never heard of us before and all of a sudden we are just popping up. There are some reptile and amphibian laws negatively affecting many herp owners in ohio. At the same time there are also new laws being passed that are negatively affecting herp owners. We are here to HOPEFULLY fight against these. For the time being we are just letting people know that we exist and hopefully we can get some people so sign up and let us know what we think.

www.nationalherplobby.org

Thanks for you concerns for they are all valid. But we would just like to hear from you. Thank again.

Chris

>>Pit tags were not designed to be used on reptiles, the manufacturer now recommends that only a vet perform this surgical procedure.

Who made up THAT lie? Better yet, who believes it?

I've been putting PIT tags in Reptiles at work for years. Hasn't Bob Clark been doing it for alike a decade or something to his hybrid pythons? I may be wrong with that.

Geez, just grab a copy or three of Herpetological Review and see how many herp studies are done with PIT tags. Granted, you've got to make sure to avoid infections or hurting the animal, but the same is true for piercing a human child's ear!

KJ

What state are you in KJUN?

>>What state are you in KJUN?

Texas. I work for TPWD. My "owner" is a vet at A&M. She's even been involved where they use PIT Tags in salamabders. Worked great. Personally, seemed a lot less cruel than freeze branding!

Later,
KJ

Well either way it goes KJUN, why dont' you go to:

www.nationalherplobby.org

sign up for FREE. And use that as an arguement in the forums. That will bring about a great discussion because those are the concerns that we are trying to deal with. Thanks for your post KJUN and we hope to see your arguement in the NHL's forums as well. Thanks again.

Chris

Has anyone in Ohio Had any trouble with this? According to the ODNR records I am the first person in my county to get a native permit and I have waited on tagging my woods because I heard something about this somewhere else. Is there an alternative that the state would accept that is in the same price range. Lets face it who has enough petty cash to microchip a herd!

NO, there is no alternative that the state will accept. For you turtles they want you to drill a hole in their shell and drop the tag in and seal it over with dental cement. For more information regarding this go to:

www.nationalherplobby.org

Hope this helps and PLEASE post ANY comments. We want people talking. This is how we plan to learn more about peoples feeling regarding these new laws.

Chris