Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Is anyone interested in starting a list to have the person who posts as "PhonicsMonkey" removed from the kingsnake.com community?!?!?!
I am growing weary of reading his/her posts ridiculing people for asking honest questions. All people like this do is give our hobby a negative cast and frustrate those of us who would actually like to help others and see the hobby grow for many years to come. If you have nothing positive to say, don't post. Constructive criticism is one thing, and typically welcomed.

Does anyone else share this view?

ban him! I posted a question about a black granite his response was I got hosed. First I had to do alot to get the snake second I paid what I felt was a fair price and last he has never seen a pic of the snake. he had no idea what he was commenting about. As stated, if you have nothing good to say don't say it. Just my opinion.

im al for it. lets add mykee to the list.

lets do it. mykee has some really rude comments. i know first hand
-----
*John*

I have been subject to his negativity as well. who here hasn't?? it would be a shorter list....

his replies today seem to be more polite and the fun post above was even a joy to read. If it stays in that tone, I think he can stay, but mykee, your ice is thin.

Muggle

"I think he can stay, but mykee, your ice is thin. "

The great muggle thinks you can stay mykee!! Woo-hoo!!
-----

I honestly didn't mean it like that... I was trying to turn the conversation. I felt the need to acknowledge that he seems to be more respectful today than usual.

muggle

But I think I'm different than most. Whether mykee is flaming, swearing, or being respectful, my opinion of him doesn't change. I don't know him. I don't "know" anyone here. Only reason I am here is because I share a common interest with everyone else, snakes in general, and Ball Pythons in particular. That's it. What everyone does or says is irrelevant, because honestly, its ALWAYS about the animals.

And this is why I have a hard time figuring out why people get so offended and take things personal I mean, don't they have enough people around them in the REAL world to worry about, to care about, and to talk to? Who gives a %$#@! what anyone says here? Aside from swearing (because kids are here), it just doesn't really matter.

Does it?
-----

I got yelled at today for providing help and support for a fellow hobbiest and sharing my views, some of them based on published pictures by accepted experts. I replied with further discussion on the topic, but this person does not seem interested in discussion, prefers to beat people down, then hide out and wait for the next attack. There are only 2 ways to do things, the "Monkey's" way or the wrong way. We'll just have to get used to it (ignore it).
Paul

I've got a good idea, I don't like people who have black hair, so let's add them to your list, ok? And then, we'll add people with brown hair, and then people with red hair. Let's just 'throw away' everyone who isn't blond-haired and blue-eyed. Sound familiar? Grow up. Welcome to the real world.

I have no hair.......so I am ok...lol
-----
RicK Denmon

Ball Boutique,Inc.
What are we talking about?

Rick; blue eyes though? If not, you might be next. Hide.

yes nice blue eyes!!!!

but but I am over weight....I get a free pass?
-----
RicK Denmon

Ball Boutique,Inc.
What are we talking about?

lets add mykee to that list.

Rick, if I ran the show, we'd all be O.K., but "they" want to run it. Good luck though.

mykee this is the real world. dont think that because your on the other side of a computer screen that your god. you aint nothing but a rude, thoughtless, non-helping, egotistical, idiot that has nothin better to do than bash on ppl who need help with a hobby that they as well as we enjoy. i'm sure you didnt know everything there is about the subject yourself when you started. so i think you are the one who needs to grow up.
-----
*John*

Who's doing the bashing? You're a joke. I however, do not attack people personally, as you have just done. That is the lowest common denominator. Tsk tsk tsk on you. Disgraceful. You should be ashamed. Glasshousestonesthinkaboutit.

your right i did bash on you. but that is actually just how you make ppl feel. like when i asked a question a while back and you replied with something to the effect of you feel sorry for the snake and for me to just get rid of it. all i am trying to say is why do you bash on ppl for asking honest questions? i really dont have a problem with you personally its just a problem with the way you display your self.
-----
*John*

why not just give helpful advice instead of rude comments? maybe ppl just feel that it will be quicker to just post a comment instead of looking back through thousands of other posts for one single thing
-----
*John*

Exactly my point. That's the problem.

whats the problem? that ppl ask questions or what?
-----
*John*

No, that people are too lazy to buy a book or do research on their own, before buying their snakes, and expect other people to answer all their questions, which, if they were responsible pet owners, they would have taken the initiative to do on their own. Before buying a pet, it is your responsibility to learn all that you can. If that were done on a regular occurance, MOST of the questions thta are asked on this forum would not be asked. The new hobbyists are getting lazy, just my observation.

i do agree with you on the point of ppl need to do research first. but i did a lot of research first and still have a few questions. but some ppl just dont do it. here is a question i have has any of your bp's ever coiled up and it looks like it is laying partially on its side? mine does that sometimes. he is shedding right now and he acts fine. just wanna know
-----
*John*

muggle

2 cents again, eh Muggle?

"mykee this is the real world. dont think that because your on the other side of a computer screen that your god. you aint nothing but a rude, thoughtless, non-helping, egotistical, idiot that has nothin better to do than bash on ppl who need help with a hobby that they as well as we enjoy."

You my "friend" are chastizing a person for doing EXACTLY what you just did. Is that not hypcritical? Would you not be a bigger "man" is you just avoided his posts and gone about your business? I can't understand how people get so worked up? Maybe they need to get laid or something.

Sad.
-----

actually i get laid quite often. and if you read my other posts you will notice that i admitted my own bashing. and i understand it was not any different from mykees
-----
*John*

Then that makes is all ok. I mean, if I understood what it meant to stab someone with a fork in the eye, does that make it ok too?

And what does any of this have to do with Ball Pythons? Damn. Nothing. I just contributed to the lameness that has become this forum over the last 36 hours.

Better post a pic to save face:

-----

not saying its ok. just saying that i know what i did wrong. i lowed myself to a lower level. i tried to keep the ball python messageing going. i asked a question a couple of posts up. about my ball laying partially on its side. it acts normal though when i pic it up. it is shedding. but have you seen this before?
-----
*John*

But Ball Pythons especially. People used to associate it with just follicular development and ovulation, but ALL Ball Pythons do it (male or female). The basics of it are they do it to move stuff around inside of them. You'll see it after a big meal, during ovulation, after ovulation, before ovulation, and sometimes for no reason at all. They are just moving stuff around in their guts!

If you think that's cool, you should see a big monitor do it! Now THAT is a sight to see!!!

-----

well thanks for the info. i really appreciate it.
-----
*John*

Because about half of the people on here are unreal!!

"Is my Ball a Morph?"

"My Ball wont eat"

"Can I handle my Ball on a Monday?"

"Why are Morphs expensive"

"Ban PhonicsMonkey"

"How big will my Ball get?"

"My new Axanthic"

The list goes on and on.

BAN ME IF YOU WILL.........

LOL, Pfisher, have fun with your NORMAL axanthic......

Thing is, nobody seems to have a problem with answering the same ASININE questions day after day after day after day after day.....Except, of course, for 'the outsiders' (that's us). I have to either commend everyone for having the patience to answer 5 questions in rotation for eternity, or feel terribly sorry for them in their complacency to do so. Don't get me wrong, not that all questions are asinine, some are legitimately honest and true; people looking to increase their knowledge-base and provide a better life for their snake. How many times can one person go into excessive detail as to why someone shouldn't keep a ball and a burm in the same tank, or why sand is a bad substrate, or people who ask why they get bit EVERY time they reach into the tank.....

Problem:

>>. How many times can one person go into excessive detail as to why someone shouldn't keep a ball and a burm in the same tank, or why sand is a bad substrate, or people who ask why they get bit EVERY time they reach into the tank.....

Solution:

Boiler plate your answers so that you don't have to keep going into excessive detail each and every time.

Keep a file record of any of the URLs to those past history discussions from this forum covering such various topics that you thought were good and thorough. When certain questions come full circle and get asked again (and again and again and again) simply provide those new folks with the link(s) to whatever past discussion that best fits the situation and say something nicely to the effect.... "hey much of this was already covered in this discussion (with url to it) you may wish to read through it and see if it helps you in your current situation. If it doesn't fully help you, you can come back and ask further questions on the matter".

I should think that if many of the regulars of this forum do this then the individual(s) in question should be able to obtain a fairly decent education on the subject at hand. Not everyone who may be cataloging past discussions in order to provide as references to newcomers is going to be saving the exact same series of discussions so I should think discussions being referenced would be fairly well rounded and varying in opinions.

People can also create their own little faq files (updating the info as necessary) that can be cut and pasted into posts and used as needed if you or whoever does not want to go the route of keeping a catalog of past discussion links.
-----
_____

PHWyvern

Some of the forums have (or used to, haven't been around lately myself) a faq at the top. What goes into getting one done up and posted up there?

That is a BRILLIANT idea. Seriously.

...some of those are pretty amusing.

I really like the one about "can I handle my ball on a Monday".

Think about it though...you can ignore those types of post.

People generally do not ask that type of question just for the express purpose of "pi$$ing PhonicsMonkey off". Do you think people wake up in the morning and say "hey...what can I do today to pi$$ PhonicsMonkey off? I know...I'll go and ask a question that he knows the answer to...that should do it."

People ask questions because they don't know...and because they would like to know. There is another line from "Desiderata" that I think you would do well to read and contemplate:

"If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself."

Remember...in much the same way that you find some people's questions to be beneath you and worthy only of your contempt, you may find that questions you ask evoke a similar response from other people possessing greater knowledge than your own.

If you read something that you feel is beneath you and your level of knowledge, just don't answer the post...move on. You will not waste your obviously valuable time...and you will not provoke World War III. Of course, if your real intention is to maybe "stir things up a bit" and "rock the boat", continue to post as you have in the past.

I learned an interesting thing in school that I later found applies equally well outside of academia: The people that make fun of others who ask questions either don't know the answers (and are afraid to ask) or think that they know the answers (but really don't).

Anyway, do as you will...but I at least hope you will reflect on what I have said and consider adopting a different attitude.

Renaissance, I agree with you completely, but don't you also agree that people coming to this site, asking questions, whom ALREADY OWN a ball should have done a certain level of reasearch? Maybe I'm just weird but before I bought my dog, snakes, ferret, feeder rats even, I learned what I could BEFORE purchasing that animal, not scrambling to find out this information after the fact. I knew what to feed them, I knew enough to keep them healthy and happy. Looks to me like people are either slacking in their basic duties as a pet owner, or would rather let other people do THEIR research for them. Over the laast year or so, this trend seems to be increasing at an alarming rate. Sad, really.

I do agree with you that it would be wonderful if people who already own a ball had done a certain level of research before acquiring the animal.

The problem with this concept, however, is what is an "adequate level of research"? The very people who would ban you from this forum because of some of your posts...are the people that you would ban because of their lack of knowledge. Can you see where this would lead us? An empty forum.

Experienced mountain climbers can get lost and face death when the weather changes unexpectedly. What should the rescuers do? Sit back in their comfy chairs in front of a blazing fire and proclaim "hey...it's their own stupid fault...they should have checked the weather forecast before they left"?

Assuming for one minute that we will always have people purchasing snakes who have not conducted as much research into the subject as you would do, which of the following scenarios would you find more palatable:
1) They don't know what to do...so they do nothing.
2) They don't know what to do...so they ask a question on this forum.

One of the prime purposes of these forums is education. Educate people with your knowledge and advice. You have already surprised me by exhibiting a level of discussion that I would never have expected based upon some of your "give it to 'em with both guns blazing posts". I have this sneaking suspicion that lurking just under your covers is a wealth of information that would prove extremely useful to many of the posters on this forum.

Ah, you see, that's where you're mistaken; I don't want to ban anyone. I, for one, love to hear differing views. It's what makes the world go 'round. Without it, boring place, this here Earth. In an idealistic world, people would take responsibilty for the animals that they chose to put in their care. For the animals sake, there have to be people out there to stop these animals from suffering poor husbandry at the hand of an uneducated/lazy owner. It's just unfortunate that 75% of the questions that are asked on this particular forum are due to laziness, plain and simple.

First, let me begin by saying that I definitely do not condone most of the posts that are generally made by PhonicsMonkey.

Assuming for one minute that "banning forum posters by consensus" is the way to go, we have a problem. The problem is this: Who gets to decide what level of behaviour is or is not acceptable?

Something that may be totally unacceptable to you may be more tolerable to someone else. Someone else may have a class or character of poster they would like banned...and this class may include you.

How many people have to "vote someone off" before they are gone? 10? 20? 200? Let's pick a number...50. Now...what's to stop me getting 50 of my nearest and dearest friends and relatives and voting you off?

Who defines these "let them live or let them die" guidelines? Whoever they are, I guarantee you that their guidelines will be acceptable to many here and unacceptable to many others.

Kingsnake has certain rules and regulations that are - in my opinion - pretty good at keeping out or getting rid of the most blatant examples of abuse on these forums. Even these rules and regulations are sometimes subject to criticism from affected parties.

When the new Kingsnake forums were being developed and the new moderators were being introduced, my first reaction was "oh, oh...there goes the neighborhood...hello censure and censorship". As time progressed, however, I think most people would agree that any moderation that has been performed has been doing very profesionally.

My feeling is that decsions regarding "what stays and what goes" and "who stays and who goes" should be left to the Kingsnake moderators. Regarding people like PhonicsMonkey...ignore them. When they feel the need to insert some inane or abusive (or both) post into a thread, read their post...and ignore it. If you really feel compelled to respond, merely point out to others that their response is something that should be disregarded.

From time to time, you may even find that people like PhonicsMonkey contribute something useful to this forum. Left alone with a typewriter long enough, I'm sure that PhonicsMonkey could indeed produce something resembling a well thought out and helpful post.

I would like to end this way-too-lengthy post with one of my favorite lines from "Desiderata"...I think it is most appropriate in this context:

"Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant, they too have their story."

I have to say that from my right to free speech standpoint I agree with you. I am not someone who posts very often but I read the boards evey day and I see all the drama and everything else.

I tend to overlook the smarta$$ comments, the leetspeak responses, etc. but I get pretty frustrated when someone comes here with a valid question (even if it is something that gets asked a lot) and they get made fun of and made to feel stupid by arrogant self-proclaimed experts (some of whom I would not be surprised if they are 15). So I see both sides of this coin.

I don't know what the resolution should be. Just thought I would throw my 2 cents in.
-----
All my Children: 0.2 female humans (1 is 10 and the other is a 6 month old hatchling), 1 Saint Bernard, 2 maine coons, 15 leopard geckos, 1 pacman frog, 1 oscar, 1 jack dempsey, 1.1 ball pythons, and "Lilith" the black meowing kitty

I do not care what others say about you......I like what you just said period. Opinions! Discord!!! I love it.

-----
RicK Denmon

Ball Boutique,Inc.
What are we talking about?

Pettiness.

...however small-minded it may be.

See, everyone acts like an a$$ every once in a while.

.

"Left alone with a typewriter long enough, I'm sure that PhonicsMonkey could indeed produce something resembling a well thought out and helpful post." Thank You..

If others would actually notice all the times I DID TRY to be helpful.

I have bad days like everyone else, I just fix them by laughing/posting here on KS BP forums.....

This is one of the best posts that I have ever seen you make.

I do not always frequent this forum, so you may well have made many others..but I would certainly like to thank you for this one.

When a post complaining about other people's posts get's 10x more hits and replies than any posts about actual animals or progression in herpetoculture. That's what troubles me more than any one person's off hand remarks, and says a LOT about this community. Its too bad. The potential for a great herp community was there. And now you know the reason(s) that the BIG (huge) breeders only stop by to post pics of the new stuff. The inner politics of this place is just staggering. And not in a good way.

I mean, take "muggle" for instance. A couple posts down, that guy replies to a girls question with "I don't know the answer, but its going to be real interesting when "mykee" posts and flames you bla bla bla". Now how exactly does that contribute to the community and more than mykee flaming or not flaming? Its destructive. Do two wrongs all of a sudden make a right? I find far too many people take far too many posts personal here. There seems to be NO room for debate, and when someone doesn't agree with someone else's post, the flame them and/or make derogatory comments about them or their herp business. Remind me again how that is cool and helpful?

Childish.
-----

Jeff, what you've mentioned a few times both through correspondence, and on public forums, is that 'it's all about the snakes'. That simple sentence often gets clouded by ego, personal feelings, and ego. Did I mention ego twice? Oh well....

For sure man. I've been saying that since Day 1, 12 years ago. LOL!

Cheers.
-----

you wrote:
--I mean, take "muggle" for instance. A couple posts down, that guy replies to a girls question with "I don't know the answer, but its going to be real interesting when "mykee" posts and flames you bla bla bla". Now how exactly does that contribute to the community and more than mykee flaming or not flaming? Its destructive. Do two wrongs all of a sudden make a right? I find far too many people take far too many posts personal here. There seems to be NO room for debate, and when someone doesn't agree with someone else's post, the flame them and/or make derogatory comments about them or their herp business. Remind me again how that is cool and helpful?

I didn't say mykee was going to flame the orig. poster. Here is the reply I posted that you are mentioning above:

Posted by: muggle at Thu Oct 23 13:11:28 2003

I asked similar questions very recently, and didn't get any good answers. The wonderful mykee was nice enough to say "your temps are too low, raise them" but didn't suggest how. such a big help. I asked about heat tape, specifically, but I can't find any good info.

Good luck. I'm interested to see where this thread goes. Hope we can get some good answers this time!

Muggle

I had asked the very same questions, and got BS answers. Very vague, and not helpful at all. I was only showing support for this poster, and trying to encourage helpful replies, since the BS had already been posted from my orig. questions. Maybe not helpful, but supportive and not critical, as others tend to be.

and, I'm a girl.

thanks
Muggle

Did you answer the question? Did you provide ANY info in regards to her query at all? Did you further any knowledge of the forum in regards to temperatures, light bulbs, heat gradients etc etc etc?

Nay, nay, and nay. So why reply? To take one last shot at mykee? Its the constant bickering and jabs in OTHER people's threads that is precisely the reason that this is not an enjoyable place to be.

Think about it.
-----

that's not bad. get off my a$$

muggle

"get off my a$$ "

Don't flatter yourself.

Check your post referenced below, I provided some linkage re: heat tape for you.

Also, grow up a little. Your reply in that thread was just as much a part of the problem as any other, and Jeff is right. You do have a valid beef if honest questions are just getting sniped at, but returning fire doesn't help the problem. If you have a question that doesn't get answered before it scrolls off the first page, simply repost it. If I know the answer or where to find info, I'll post. My posting style is usually to scan through the threads for unanswered questions from beginners. I am by no means as experienced as some folks, but I have a good grasp of the basics and several years' herp keeping experience and TONS of links in my head to draw on, so I try to help where I can.

Now,I get the idea that Jeff is a good source of ball python info, so if I were you, I'd think before I typed, especially when he's in the right. I've been on these forums under various names for quite a while, and I've seen some big breeders and some very experienced private breeders who used to post regularly simply pack it in and leave over time. It's probably not a good idea to run any more off.

>>Is anyone interested in starting a list to have the person who posts as "PhonicsMonkey" removed from the kingsnake.com community?!?!?!
>>I am growing weary of reading his/her posts ridiculing people for asking honest questions. All people like this do is give our hobby a negative cast and frustrate those of us who would actually like to help others and see the hobby grow for many years to come. If you have nothing positive to say, don't post. Constructive criticism is one thing, and typically welcomed.
>>
>>Does anyone else share this view?

Ok,

Hate to disappoint anyone, but the forums are not a pure democracy and it surely ain't "Survivor" so there will be no having one group of people ganging up against someone else or several someones and voting them off the forums.

The only people who can vote an individual off the forum is that individual themself and it is based on their overall repeated actions and behavior on the forums in regards to violating the terms of service that they (& everyone else) agreed to follow when registering with this site.

Now, generally speaking -

Debate: a contention by words or arguments as a regulated discussion of a proposition between two matched sides. Also applicable: to argue about, to turn over in one's mind, to investigate by reasoning or argument, to present in detail for examination or consideration, to talk about, to discuss.

Some notable excerpts from the Kingsnake.com/PetHobbyist.com's terms of service:

"Our various features such as forums, message boards, photo galleries, classifieds and chat rooms are for discussion, entertainment, and community purposes only. We make no claims of accuracy about any information you might find there. Readers rely on information posted in our sites at their own risk."

and

"Posting threats, potentially libelous statements, personal attacks, disruption, and "trolling" (seeking to disrupt the site with inflammatory posts and actions) are violations."

and

"Posting obscene materials, profanity, or racial, sexual, personal, or religious slurs to this website are violations."

Ok. There are always going to be those times when an individual(s) comes around and opens up a particular discussion that has the potential to rile other people up, be it intentional or not. Sometimes this may be defined by some as trolling and there are many different interpretations of this 'phenomenon' which can determine just how it will be responded to by the masses. If you feel a topic is worth participating in, there is nothing wrong with arguing / debating that topic in a lively manner, however, it is inappropriate to attack people directly and personally for their stance(s) on whatever that topic is. It is safer to adhere to debating the issue - not attacking the person whose opinions differ from your own. Please leave the name-calling, insults, and animosity at home or take it to private email. Not everyone is going to hold to the same opinions typically held according to mainstream views and there is nothing wrong with that. Participating in a discussion in a calm and civilized manner goes a lot further and does more to open people's minds up than to carry on and rant or act in an otherwise childish manner. At the very least, people always have the option to agree that it can be said you simply disagree on a topic and then leave it at that.

In the end, if the topic of particular discussion in question (or certain individuals participating is said discussion) is not to your liking, there is always a personal choice to skip it and move on. There is no obligation on anyone to take part in any let alone every discussion held on any of the forums. However, please keep in mind that if members cannot follow the rules and who cannot play nicely on the playground will find themselves losing their posting privalages on the forums.

Reporting Forum Abuse

If you should happen to see posted messages that are in direct violation of this sites Terms of Service, please take the time to report them. The report abuse link can be found on every post next to the name of the poster of that message.

If you submit an abuse report, please do not later ask for/demand a reply on what is being done about the matter that has been reported. All abuse reports are reviewed and action will be taken as is deemed necessary even if it means no action is needed.

Thank You.
______

PHWyvern

PetHobbyist Moderator
*Kingsnake.com / Kingsnake.ca - Forum Leader/Chat Leader
*InsectHobbyist.com - Site Coordinator/Forum Leader
*ExoticHobbyist.com - Site Coordinator/Forum Leader

PetHobbyist.com