Reptile & Amphibian Forums

hello. ive kept various types of reptiles and i would like to get into arrow frogs and terrariums....

id like to have many different kinds of arrow frogs in one terrarium. i was wondering what kinds will "get along" together in a properly sized aquarium. is it just females that will fight?

also any good links to terrarium setup webpages would be appreciated

thank you

There are a wide variety of problems can can arise as a result of mixing species
1) NEVER mix dart frogs with any other species of frogs that are not darts.... that includes red-eyes, mantellas, any sort of hylid... the list goes on...... parasites, incompatible temp/humidity requirements, different food size... are all reasons not to mix darts with anything else
2) Darts are likely to hybridize... this is an extremely frowned upon practice in dendro keeping.... I pray to the frog-spirits that darts will never become like leopard geckos or corn snakes... i shudder to think of what that might be like..ugh...This is frowned upon because we do not know how long we can get wild-type darts for, because of habitat destruction and exporting issues... so we want to keep our dendros as pure as possible... the ay nature intended them. Plus, there are some shady people out there that would sell you a hybrid and tell you it is something pure... there are horror stories that are reality.
3) Apparently, you will miss out on a lot of natural INTRA-species behaviour in a mixed tank, and have to deal with lots of INTER-species competition for food, territory etc. etc. It is just a sttress that is not necessary.
Baiscally, there is one question that always has to be asked when consdering mixing species..... and that is "How will the FROGS benefit from such a mixed tank?" The answer.... they WON'T! So, in the best interest of our little dendrobatid friends.... keep single species tanks... and your dart keeping will be much more enjoyable experience. Good luck, and I am glad you are interested in this hobby. Setting up these animals in little pieces of the rainforests is absolutely amazing. I couldn't imagine life without my darts.
Good luck, and keep reading
Double J

are people against keeping different arrow frogs together because of them breeding only? how about an all male setup? theres so many colors that i like, id have to have 10 mini tanks instead of one huge one.

Even in an all-male mixed terrarium, you're still going to have problems. For instance, tinctorius are more outgoing and are voracious eaters, while azureus tend to be a little bit on the shy side. Mixing these two species might result in the tinctorius out-competing the azureus for food. Even if you decided to mix an azureus with a thumbnail species, you still run the risk of feeding and other companion problems.
-----
Randy

Again... it all comes down to WHY??? How will this benefit the frogs?? it won't... bottom line. Why have... as you put it... "ten mini tanks" when you could have three single-species tanks each with three indiviudal frogs of the same species? It just makes more sense. Do some more reading on dart frogs, and have some more discussions on this forum. It seems to me that you are more attracted to a tank with pretty colors than the frogs themselves. I think that you may be looking into the wrong hobby here if this is the case. If you want a tank with lots of different color... get yourself a tropical fish tank. If you want a beautiful rainforest tank where you can see frogs breed, and interact in a natural sense... get a some darts. Trust me... a single speceis vivarium with some azureus (the blue dart frogs) is all the colorful splendor you need. Please, with the best interest of the frogs in mind... keep the species on their own. Even many of the advanced keepers steer clear of these mixed tanks.
I hope I don't seem harsh, I am just trying to steer you in the right direction. Keep reading, and good luck.
Double J

it doesnt seem like a big deal to mix arrow frogs. i can make sure they get enough food individually. as far as fish go, ive kept every fish under the sun. ive had species of marine fish said to not be compatible together with no problems. its seems that the only problem with keeping mixed frogs is food competition. i dont think that will be a problem, i spend over an hr a day feeding and checking on my animals. if worse comes to worse i can split them up....

Look, there are more problems than just food competition. The BIG problem is HYBRIDIZATION!!!!! We do NOT WANT THAT TO CORRUPT OUR HOBBY!!!!! Go back and read my first post. Or better yet, do a search in the archives on hybrids. I already know of a few hybrid nightmares that have happened... what I am worried about are the ones I don't know about. You see... you may say.. "if my frogs hybridize, I will sell them as hybrids" Ok, but are you sure the next guy will sell them as hybrids if they look like an established morph?? And to clarify... these tinc, auratus, and pumilio morphs are not artificial.... they are locality specific. That means they are NATURAL. Thankfully we have not had any of this gawdawful crossing/slectuve breeding yadda yadda in this dart hobby to come up with new morphs.
Now you mentioned you wanted a tank with all males to prevent the inevitable hybrids.... Do you plan to buy froglets or sexed adults? Froglets cannot be reliably sexed... and sexed adults will be pricey. This situation is just not worth the effort in my mind. If you want a mix of color... why don't you get some tinctorius.... they are black, blue, and yellow... that is all the color you need. That way... you have all the same frogs in one tank... you will not have to worry about food competition, inter-species territorial disputes and aggression.....and you will not have to worry about hybrids. You will be able to sit back... feed your frogs.. and watch them propagate. Your mixed tank idea kills that. We are just trying to steer you in the right directon here. People have tried your idea thousands of times and the past, and most have failed miserably. In closing.. you still haven't answered my original question.... HOW WILL THE FROGS BENEFIT FROM A MULTI-SPECIES ENVRIONMENT???? Answer that.. I challenge you to. If you can't find an answer other than "they can't benefit", I think you should re-think your vivarium proposition, and stick with a single species tank.
Good luck
Double J

ok ok, ill do 3 20 gals... benefit... hmmm ... does any animal really benefit by being captive? maybe endangered species that need to be bred or animals who cant survive in the wild anymore because of greedy human deforestation. but i see your point. i know what stress does to animals. i had to keep pushing it because ive got a 75 gal that would make a beautiful vivarium. if i put 3 frogs in there id never see them. but it would probably be even better to have them breed in species specific setups. if i decided to do the 75gal, how many of one species could i keep in there? does it depend on the particular species?

thanks for your advice

Hey, I concidered mixing but after doing alot of research and reading all discussions on this forum I understood what everyone in the hobby was saying. One species/morph one tank.
I have three yellow back Tinc's in a 75 gal tank and I see them all the time.
Tim

You mentioned that if you put 3 frogs in a 75 gallon tank, you would never see them. I have three D. galactonotus in a heavily planted 135 gallon paludarium and they are almost always out and about and visible. The four D. leukomelas are in a 72 gallon bow tank with a stream, shallow pool with smooth pebbles, lots of plants and they are almost always out hunting and "playing" in the pool. All of my other frogs are also visible most of the time, albeit in somewhat smaller tanks, including the D. auratus that started out by being shy until I offered them even more hiding places, which made them feel secure enough to come out and hop around a lot more. So go ahead and use your larger tank for just a few frogs if you have the room. Some of the most fun is setting up a design with water features, being able to grow an enormous variety of beautiful tropical plants, as well.

It's a hobby you will certainly enjoy. Good luck!

-----
Patty
Lost River, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
3 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
4 D. leukomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos

Hey slap, if you are worried that you will "waste" space with only one species, why don't you put some glass dividers in your 75 gallon? You could probably get three or four divisions out of it while comfortably housing different "colors" of darts. If you check down the forum, you'll see that this question of mixing has been asked by MANY new hobbyists. However, you will see that it's NOT a highly debated topic, since the reasons for not mixing are more than justified.
If you must have a number of frogs with different colors, just split your tank up. Good luck!
-----
Randy

I would agree that if you pick the right frogs, You would see them all the time in a 75 gallon tank. Also using the bigger tank will allow you to use lots more plants and do more landscaping. Just one thing, before you post a question check the forum for the same question , lots of questions get asked every few days and get just a little annoying. Welcome to the hobby and have fun!
-----
Nate
1.1 alanis tincs
0.0.2 imitators(looking for sens and horn line frogs)
0.0.2 Azureus
0.0.3 green pumilio(On waiting list that puts the waiting in waiting list )

You can look at my links page below for a lot of links, to information on darts. Most people are against mixing...
-----
Kyle
www.kylesphotos.com
Dart Links - still a work in progress
1.2.0 D. leucomelas
1.1.0 D. azureus
1.0.1 D. imitators

thanks for the link page. did you create it? i want to order 100 types of plants now.

very helpful, thanks

Yes I created the link page. I wanted to help people out, but since I still new to frogs myself I'd rather point people to information than claim any of it as my own ideas. I might make the site into more later, but who knows.

Glad you like it,
-----
Kyle
www.kylesphotos.com
Dart Links - still a work in progress
1.2.0 D. leucomelas
1.1.0 D. azureus
1.0.1 D. imitators