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I thought that I might toss this out to the general Pit public for consumption. Any ideas what this animal is? What locality if any?

hybrid ruthveni....lol.

I couldn't resist following the recent posts in this forum. I cheated and saw what you had it labelled as (so I can't play this game), BUT I don't want to talk to you any more. I saw what you used for the species name. You should be ashamed of yourself, John. tsk tsk tsk. Welcome to this decade....lol.

KJ

New to the forum, I was running through the photos for the northern pines and noticed that back in the end of August you posted an awesome photo of an Northern Pine....was wondering if you had ever produced offspring from this individual?

Howdy,

I assume the on in this picture is the one you mean? If so, that is one we produced. I sold off the adult parents to that guy about 3 years ago to John. He had them last time we visited, so I imagine that the adults to that one died in his very upsetting accident. Not the most important animals in his colony, but a little piece of me will always be sad over their loss - and very sad oiver John's loss!

Anyway, my boss informed me that her sister wanted a pet snake. I still had 3 or 4 of the last clutch of Northern pines I ever produced (e.g., 3 years ago just before I sold the adults). I felt that would be a great beginner snake for her, so she got one of the better looking males. (Funny since this was the bottom theird of the clutch that I hadn't sold yet, huh? LOL.) Anyway, that is the male. I just got back a sister to that one that looks almost as good that I had given to another CLOSE friend to breed to an unrelated male I sold to him earlier (another sad story about that guy, too). She's in my back room right now. I'm not sure if I plan to breed them again and try to start the bloodlione over again or if I just plan to keep her as a pet. It'll be a year before I have to make up my mind.

Thanks for reading,
KJ

KJ....I must have missed this pic! Thanks for posting it again! Absolutely breathtaking my friend!!!!!!!!!!!
Are you going to be at the Bayou Breeders Expo coming up in Houston?
Take care!
Billy
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Genesis 1:1

a
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Burgundy baby, With your blue eyed soul, You play the hits and I'm on that roll, Capricorn sister, Freddie Mercury, Jupiter Child cry

1`
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Genesis 1:1

>>KJ....I must have missed this pic! Thanks for posting it again! Absolutely breathtaking my friend!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks. I like that animal. There was a picture of the Evil One's sister holding the pinesnake (which is aptly named Indiana Bob Syrin, and called by his last name for short) that I thgought about posting as "me with a northern pinesnake" as a joke. Her initials are "KJ," so it would have been funny. I also thought it would be funny when she got beat up for things I've Done....lol. The Evil One laughed and told me to go for it. That's when I knew it was too evil of an idea for me to follow through with. I believe you met the Evil One at the last ETHS show, Right, Billy?

>>Are you going to be at the Bayou Breeders Expo coming up in Houston?

Maybe. I'm trying, but I'm scheduled to work that weekend. A replacement should be too hard to arrange if I really decide that I want to go.

KJ

Actually, you did refer and talk about the Evil One, but I didn't meet the female entity that spread the darkness to your life. Perhaps in the future......................

Billy
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Genesis 1:1

The "Evil One". lol I don't know who that is but I think every guy I know over the age of 20 has someone that they call the "Evil One".
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International Snakes Meetup
International Herpetology Meetup

The Evil One is my owner. Her full title is "The Evil Incarnate, Collector of Souls and Devourer of Hope. "EICOS" for short. In some circles, she is also known as the "Remover of Testes."

I forgot her real name about 6 or 7 years ago, so I just call her by her official title usually. I'm not worthy of using her real name, anyway.
KJ

I'll keep my fingers crossed that you'll choose to keep this beautiful line going.....be a shame to loose that genetic combination. Love the clean black on white.

Thanks for the reply, have enjoyed your posts and comments during my short review time on the forum.... Just diving back into the hobby and am trying to become familiar with Pituophis systematics and sub species/color pattern distributions again.

Would you say that most of the more serious Pituophis breeders are in the south? Trying to run across come contacts here in the Midwest (Ohio/Ind./ MI.) that I might speak with or visit.

John,

I hate this stuff and I fiqure you are settng me up. LOL But in the jest of things I would GUESS Ill. bull of some locale. A lot of head pattern and darkness in the front 1/3. Additionally if it is a Ill. bull, from the bright yellow I would say Kankakee. How far off am I. It will probally be a canadian or something. Oh well there you go.

John Cherry
Cherryville Farms

the sayi I've seen in Kansas. I haven't seen one that solid black on the front third. So, what is it???

Mike B

Its great Basin Gopher with out a doubt .

Jason

I'd say it looks like a Kankakee Bull.
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1.1 Ghost Bulls
1.1 Texas Glossy snakes
1.3 Western Hognose
1.1 Het Striped Pacific Gophers
1.2 Tri-color hognose
1.1 Black Milks
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boas

let the attacks begin......haha

Definately Kankakee, IL. bull...
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"The Crawl Space"

Awesome! It's the only pit I'm qualified to ID. And the only one I've ever seen in the wild. (now if I'm wrong I'll look really stupid) I live just about 30 to 40 miles south of there. Kankakee Bull.
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International Snakes Meetup
International Herpetology Meetup

I would say that it is a bullsnake based on the count and appearance of the dorsal blotches. I do not have any clue as to locality.
dB

n/t

Kankakee, Co. Illinois Bull snake you are correct.....Good job!

And KJ....No, I will not join this decade. I am still not convinced.

This is a photo of my breeder female. I have her complements of Eric R. Thanks Eric.

Cheers, Ginter

I enjoy these exercises. In the last couple of years I have owned two Pits. The first I traded for a lizard and wish I had kept it. They are fascinating to watch. These exercises help me with identification. What else do you have??? Keep them coming.

Mike B

>>And KJ....No, I will not join this decade. I am still not convinced.

Me, neither, but that doesn't make us right in the face of their evidence. I do NOT agree with the current black-and-white split, but I don't think we only have one species of Pituophis in the US, either. Calling all of those guys one species is as worng as saying a Louisiana milksnake and a Black milsnake are all the same species....lol. Wait, they are still doing that, aren't they? Oh, well.

Face it, the P. melanoleucus complex (like the L. triangulum complex) are NOT a "cpecies" that you can easily divide into neat litle boxes with no overlap like the taxonomists try to do with everything. There are more shades of grey in the "true" taxonomy in these examples than their are black and white lines! Try getting THAT published in a peer reviewed journal, though...lol.

KJ

So what isthe "current accepted" taxonomy? My new field guide has everything listed as P. m..
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International Snakes Meetup
International Herpetology Meetup

>>So what isthe "current accepted" taxonomy? My new field guide has everything listed as P. m..
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>> International Snakes Meetup
>> International Herpetology Meetup

I saw one last year in a horrible "sell anything that lives" pet store that was about 3 ft. long for $40 in Chicago. It said bullsnake on the glass, but it had some great black coloring & clean pattern that I had never seen on a bull. It was very stunning looking. I was very tempted, but thought it might be somthing it would out grow. When I saw more of these on the forum and found out that it was local that does indeed keep these great colors & pattern I called the store back only to find out that it had been sold to some kid!

>>I thought that I might toss this out to the general Pit public for consumption. Any ideas what this animal is? What locality if any?
>>
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Landon Johnson

dorkdog@suscom.net