Reptile & Amphibian Forums

First, this is not an attempt to discredit (or anything similar) about the "dwarf burms". I think its a topic worthy of thought and debate and could even apply to the dwarf retics.

I am somewhat disturbed by the dwarf talk. To me, a dwarf burm is NOT a burm. Understand me, a HUGE (no pun intended) part of being a burm owner is the sheer size that the species can attain if maintained properly and whats included in that. Feeding a burm a 10 to 20 pound rabbit is an experience itself. Those of you with large burms know exactly what I mean by that. Seeing my big green female come up and snatch that rabbit and swallow it is an amazing sight in itself. This second, I am looking at her in her cage and am in a state of amazement at her beauty, grace and size. I just dont get the whole dwarf thing. If I want a 5' snake, I will buy a ball python, and expect it to be less nippy than a burm. Its a dilution of the species and the draw of the species. To own a dwarf burm is to NOT own a burm at all. Does anyone here understand what Im saying? The vast majority of "should I get a burm" posts are based on their size and the things that go with having an animal that size. Is it *really* the same thing? Sure, its only those who can say "yeah I have a burmese python" (and skip the dwarf part) who can truly benefit from the dwarf part.
Im curious of everyone's thoughts on this aspect of the "dwarf burms". Feel free to flame or whatever...Im ready for it.
Lets make a record thread here!

You said it!!! most people here ask should i get a burm or not.Basing their decisions on the size a snake will get and the food it will eat. Alot of people do not have space for a large snake. So a dwarf is perfect. Some may not like feeding a cute and lovable rabbit to a snake. But they will not mind feeding a rat or mouse. SOme women may want a snake and maybe they can not handle a big snake. I dought you have to worry about a DWARF burm getting out of its cage and eating your kid or constricting you to death. Not to mention the laws against having snakes over 6 to 8 ft. I am for the dwarfs and can not wait to get one.

I will also continue to own my big burms and retics.

>>First, this is not an attempt to discredit (or anything similar) about the "dwarf burms". I think its a topic worthy of thought and debate and could even apply to the dwarf retics.
>>
>>I am somewhat disturbed by the dwarf talk. To me, a dwarf burm is NOT a burm. Understand me, a HUGE (no pun intended) part of being a burm owner is the sheer size that the species can attain if maintained properly and whats included in that. Feeding a burm a 10 to 20 pound rabbit is an experience itself. Those of you with large burms know exactly what I mean by that. Seeing my big green female come up and snatch that rabbit and swallow it is an amazing sight in itself. This second, I am looking at her in her cage and am in a state of amazement at her beauty, grace and size. I just dont get the whole dwarf thing. If I want a 5' snake, I will buy a ball python, and expect it to be less nippy than a burm. Its a dilution of the species and the draw of the species. To own a dwarf burm is to NOT own a burm at all. Does anyone here understand what Im saying? The vast majority of "should I get a burm" posts are based on their size and the things that go with having an animal that size. Is it *really* the same thing? Sure, its only those who can say "yeah I have a burmese python" (and skip the dwarf part) who can truly benefit from the dwarf part.
>>Im curious of everyone's thoughts on this aspect of the "dwarf burms". Feel free to flame or whatever...Im ready for it.
>>Lets make a record thread here!
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Thomas Jones
aligatorhunter@earthlink.net
(252) 757-3879

My Wife Ran Off With My Best Friend, I Sure Do Miss HIM!!!

I am really excited about the dwarf burms. The large size of the burmese is one of the things that many people enjoy about keeping them, myself included. However, I think that there's more to burms than just their large size. All of the different colors, patterns, and their gentle nature makes them very desirable.

I do think that they are a true small morph of the burm and I wish Savanah all the best with this project. The dwarfs may not be for everyone and that's ok, everyone has their own opinion. I am looking forward to adding the dwarfs to my collection someday.

Thanks,
Tom Reagan

First of all,.. I want to begin my post here by saying that I am closer to 99% sure that these are the genuine deal. I am not at liberty to say at this point what has changed in the last few days to make me believe this almost entirely,. but I do and that's all that is important.

Secondly,.. that's ABSURD to say that burms are only burms if they are big when clearly a true dwarf locality has been found to exist in the wild. If they occur naturally, (which they do) then they are dwarf burms through and through. People wanting burms to be simply big does not make it so that they can only be big. If they aren't a tiny burmese subspecies, then what are they? Corn pythons?

I never thought this was going to happen. I didn't think they would occur naturally. I was wrong. It isn't a first and it certainly isn't the last time I will be dead wrong. I was going to try to "create" dwarf burms, but that wouldn't hold a weak candle to the real deal occuring naturally. I am so sure these are real that I am scrapping my own dwarf project. What's the point, you know? But while I may be feeling very envious of Savannah and her great fortune to get these animals (understatement of the century) I am also VERY excited about this and can't wait to see it become a reality in the herp world. This opens multitudes of doors for hundreds of new posibilities for folks that couldn't house or handle big burms. This is probably the biggest thing to EVER happen to the captive python world/market.

Savannah,. take my advise,. don't sell ANY of your dwarfs, regardless of the offer. And don't trust the locality info to anyone if you can keep that under wraps too. You have this incredible dwarf market by the spurs,.. don't let it go.

Take care. Trust no one.

P.S. to the forum in general: There will likely be many attempts to discredit these snakes or this project over the next few months. Try to see through these as obvious intentional sabatoges by jealous competitors that don't have these themselves. This business is very ruthless and cut-throat and there is very little morality amidst the competition.

>>I am somewhat disturbed by the dwarf talk. To me, a dwarf burm is NOT a burm. Understand me, a HUGE (no pun intended) part of being a burm owner is the sheer size that the species can attain if maintained properly and whats included in that. Feeding a burm a 10 to 20 pound rabbit is an experience itself. Those of you with large burms know exactly what I mean by that. Seeing my big green female come up and snatch that rabbit and swallow it is an amazing sight in itself. This second, I am looking at her in her cage and am in a state of amazement at her beauty, grace and size. I just dont get the whole dwarf thing. If I want a 5' snake, I will buy a ball python, and expect it to be less nippy than a burm. Its a dilution of the species and the draw of the species. To own a dwarf burm is to NOT own a burm at all. Does anyone here understand what Im saying? The vast majority of "should I get a burm" posts are based on their size and the things that go with having an animal that size. Is it *really* the same thing? Sure, its only those who can say "yeah I have a burmese python" (and skip the dwarf part) who can truly benefit from the dwarf part.
>>Im curious of everyone's thoughts on this aspect of the "dwarf burms". Feel free to flame or whatever...Im ready for it.
>>Lets make a record thread here!
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"If I had 365 enemies it would only take a year out of my life to settle all scores." Mia Miselfani

First I will say that I still have my doubts due simply to the fact that these are first generation from the wild (from my understanding) and no young have been raised to adulthood. That isn't to say that they won't prove out exactly as claimed, but I would want to see the first captive generation raised to adulthood before I believe it. As for a true dwarf subspecies of burm not being a 'real' burm, I disagree. There are a lot of people who love the burmese pythons but have no business owning a snake that will easily reach 12'-15' . I own a yearling albino that I got as a hatchling last year, and I am currently building a cage for a 13' female I'm getting from a friend who can no longer keep her. A dwarf variety would allow people who can't house or properly care for a normal adult burm to still own a burm. In reality however, this is basically a mute point at this juncture. The price for the dwarfs is bound to be way over the general public's budget, coupled with the suggestion out there that those producing the alleged dwarfs should keep the animals to themselves and set the market for them, it will be some time before the average Joe who'd want a dwarf burm can ever hope to own it.

Just my .02 worth.
Raven

well after seeing the pics and reading the forums i got in contact with savanna at morphspeclties after talking to her.i took her up on her offer and flew out to see the animals. all the time saying to my self i just want to look. well when i got there i just had to have them and i put a deposit down. albinosunlimited is now happy to say we will be working with these amazing animals. i know people say they are not real burms they dont get big well. with the laws changing and the demand for smaller snakes this is it.

What do you plan on doing if it doesnt pan out as you hope? I would imagine your deposit was pretty hefty...

well like any thing in this industry if you want to make money and get your name out there you need to take a risk. like pete did with his pieds ralph with his platty. i went and saw the animals and they look different than normal burms i saw the eggs and just felt like it was worth it.