Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello. I am on the verge of purchasing some MTS. I have done my research and I would appreciate some advice on the following 3 options that I have available regarding the ages, (with this comes the reliability of sexing), imported or CB, etc:
i) 1.2 CB. These are young, one is 2 weeks old, the other 2 are about 3 months old. How reliable is the sexingat this age? (Seller seems experienced with the popping technique)
ii) 1.2 imported juveniles. I'm aware of the possibility or parasites and the other prospective problems with imports. How much are vet bills? fecal samples, etc.? how reliable is sexing at this age?
iii) 1.1 three year old imported adults. These are long term captives (seller says about 2.5 years and guarantees the sex) that have been treated for parasites and have not bred yet.

I am in no hurry to breed, I am looking for a group that has the least tendency for problems such as parasites, mistakened sexing, etc. Please give advice on which of the the options you think is best. I realize that we all have our personal preferences, so if you guys don't mind, please share YOUR experiences with your MTS purchases and outcomes.
I realize this is long, but I want to have the best advice going into this. Oh, I'm new to this forum and would like to say 'hi!' to everyone!
Thanks in advance,
Tristan
(if anyone's interested, I have pics of the exact skinks from i),iii))

Hi, Tristan:
Captive breeding should always be encouraged, especially of species such as prehensile tailed skinks. Therefore, the captive-bred trio would be your best choice.
Additionally, as you expressed concern for future parasite problems and health issues in general, captive-bred animals have a much lower likelihood of giving you such headaches.
The above holds true regardless of the species involved, so although I don't have direct experience with this species, I feel confident in my advice.
Good luck.
-----
Edward
Carpe diem

Hello! I have multiple PTS- the originals being WC imports from about 3 years ago- I would second Edward in supporting the CB choice, but with several worries that you should look into before purchase. Look into when the WC were shipped in- lots of probable illegal shipments happened in the last few months. At least ask about permits.

i) CB can mean "captive bred" or "captive born" with all of the recent activity in the Solomon Islands and the massive import # we saw available a few months ago. This 2 week old baby and the other slightly older individuals may be captive born to very recent WC adults. Gravid females are COMMON in imported shipments. Some importers will hold back the fat females until they give birth so they can sell both the animals. ASK what these babies are. A captive born baby is not much better than a wild caught baby in terms of health and parasite load. Great if these are captive bred and born animals- wonderful if there is someone out there with such a successful breeding program that they can sell 3 babies all at once, and not having to hold any back. From their ages this means that this breeder has at least 3 different females, all reproductively active. These are NOT easy animals to breed consistently, and one female will produce 1 baby (if lucky- twins) a year at most. My other BIG concern is that a 2 week old baby is VERY young. They are absorbing their yolk for the first week or so, and many are not eating consistently at this age yet. ASK whether the little one is eating yet (and pooping). My PTS twins born on 10/13- are active and drinking, but not eating much yet- their survival is NOT a sure thing (yet). Oh, and one more concern- will they be shipped or picked up in person? Shipping always has a small element of risk, and the younger the animal, the more risky. My preference if I was buying PTS right now would be the CB/CB 2-3 year old. Old enough to get a good guess on the sex and well past the mortality risk in neotatehood, but young enough to make transition into a new colony easier. I hate the popping techique, and don't have any experience in it with PTS, other than stay away from it in adults.

ii) This choice would be fine- being aware of the typical problems with malnutrition/dehydration/stress/parasites/shipping injuries/capture injuries. Vet exam would be ~30-70$ per animal depending on where you are/who you see. Fecal ~20-50$ per poop, and type of test run. Deworming ~10-20$ for meds from vet. Adds up, but important stuff. Sexing in PTS is never terribly reliable. Head width and body shape is a decent indicator, behavior is very useful, and read back through the posts for Brian's head/body girth ratio which looked to be pretty useful.

iii) Also not a bad choice- LTC is fairly safe. This is what my original pair was- they are doing fine and have been very productive. The big drawback is I have NO idea how old they are. They could be anywhere from 7 years to 20 years... You should still have them checked for parasites. The only guarantee of sex that I would take is production of a baby. Other than that- the seller can only really say- "I really think this is a pair". I have a trio that was originally 1 male and 2 females. I now have 1 male, 1 gravid female, and 1? (Looking more and more male from behavior and body type)

Glad you are in no hurry to breed- PTS take patience, luck and compatible genetics. If you do purchase an animal that does a sex switch on you later- oh well, now you have an excuse to build a new enclosure and find another one or two to share it....
Cheers, Jess B

Thanks for your advice. I've been reading on the forum for a couple of weeks and I would like to say that you have beautiful MTS! the babies are gorgeous!
Okay, regarding your response to iii), specifically about the "sex change" thing: the seller told me that they are an established pair and have been in captivity for 2.5 years and have not yet produced. My question is: is it more probably that they are 1.1 or 0.2 versus 2.0 since I've read that two males will fight? If they are two males, then wouldn't they have fought (they've been together for 2.5 years) by now?
Option ii) is out of the question b/c the seller has just informed me that they are sold.
As for i), yes, I do believe that they are captive born and not captive bred.
Would appreciate more advice, thanks
Tristan

Thanks for the compliment- I am rather fond of them!
If I had to guess on the sex of the pair since they have been together for quite sometime and haven't hurt each other as far as you know- yes, it is probably less likely that it is 2.0- BUT two males won't necessarily fight- one may harass the other, but not hurt it. One may still be immature, they both may be immature- we think it takes about 2-3 years to reach sexual maturity on average. So they are probably a pair or two females, but you really can't know for sure. A male/female pair might not breed because of poor husbandry, illness, genetic incompatibility, sexual immaturity, mixed environmental signals- the list is endless. If you want these two and hope for babies, get them- you may have to be very patient and watch for behavior clues, and do your best to provide correct food, temps, humidity, non-screwy light cycle, and don't handle them much.

How about getting BOTH sets of PTS, quarantine them in their separate groups- then after a few months, introduce them all to a NEW large enclosure? You can pull the extra males if you end up with extras as they mature and if they cause trouble with each other....
cheers, jess b

Thanks for your advice. I've been reading on the forum for a couple of weeks and I would like to say that you have beautiful
MTS! the babies are gorgeous!
Okay, regarding your response to iii), specifically about the "sex change" thing: the seller told me that they are an established
pair and have been in captivity for 2.5 years and have not yet produced. My question is: is it more probably that they are
1.1 or 0.2 versus 2.0 since I've read that two males will fight? If they are two males, then wouldn't they have fought (they've
been together for 2.5 years) by now?
Option ii) is out of the question b/c the seller has just informed me that they are sold.
As for i), yes, I do believe that they are captive born and not captive bred.
Would appreciate more advice, thanks
Tristan

You should buy the 1.1 adults.They are used to people so they must be tame. Besides that you are sure to have a couple that go along together and they are healthy so no vets bills.
If you buy the trio you are not sure about the sex and you can end up with 3 males that hate each other and want to kill each other!That happened with me with iguanas.I bought what the salesman told me that were one male and 2 females.I end up with 3 males that dont stop fighting and i spent lots of money in cages because i needed to separate them!
Besides that a baby is always very fragile and you dont know whether they will thrive or not!As you dont have too much experience with MTS an adult is always more hardy.

I have to respectfully disagree with you here on a few points- LTC does not mean tame (Gertie and Chip were LTC at purchase and are more so now, but NOT tame) LTC just means they managed to survive the shipping process and a few years in captivity. It has little bearing on temperment or really even health. If he purchases the 1.1 LTC a vet visit and fecal (ie vet bills) would still be an excellent idea- the point being catch the problems before the animal gets sick enough for the average pet owner to notice. There is no good way to know how these LTC animals have been cared for prior to sale, unless the buyer is local and has seen it.

Don't feel bad about having to separate your adult Igs. Even if you really had purchased 1 male and 2 females, you would probably have had to separate them. Adults Igs need their own space. Even the little ones do MUCH better housed singly. People that buy 2 little baby Igs that look identical and house them together, within a couple of months usually have one fat and happy teenage Ig and one miserable skinny Ig. Igs don't usually do well in groups in captivity. Especially multiple males. Adult females and male/females living in the same house can often have limited contact and get along with supervision, but group housing is asking for trouble or even death.
Cheers, Jess b

Weight your MTS when you get them to keep track of weight, looking at them. doesnt help in 6 weeks

and male and female can be caged together i think you should buy the couple (if they are healthy of course)cage them together and try to breed them!Its better than to buy 2 youngsters you dont know the sex or to properly care of them!If you breed them in one year you probably will have the baby you want with the garantee you will be able to cage all the members of the family together!At that time you will have the experience you need to properly care for a baby!Its better as i said before than to buy 2 juvies you dont know the sex and to end up with 2 males that cannot be caged together!It seems that MTS are pretty aggressive towards others males and the fights can be bloody! And the vets bills too!(