Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a female western that had a terrible regurge problem. She would regurge about every other meal and couldn't eat anything larger than a pinkie. She had a clean fecal. This went on for six months. 10 weeks ago I started putting Grapefruit seed extract in her water. She has not regurged once since then and is now eating two fuzzies twice a week. I'm not ready to endorse it yet but it seems to have worked wonders for this snake.

Tim
Southampton Herps

I had the same problem with a western. Upon what evidence do you base this treatment? I know very little about herbal supplements.
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*Humans aren't the only species on earth... we just act like it.

".the oldest task in human history: to live on a piece of land without
spoiling it."
Aldo Leopold (1938)

There is a wealth of info. about it on the web. It has been used in agriculture for about 10 years now, to treat a variety of intestinal problems in live stock especially chickens. I understand that the Love's recommend it in their Cornsnake Manual for hatchlings that refuse to eat. You can do a search for citricidal or GSE.
Tim

GRAPEFRUIT SEED EXTRACT PRODUCTS

Broad Specturm Antiseptics

Grapefruit Seed Extract was originally developed by Jacob Harich (1919-1996) as an antiparasitic agent. Dr. Harich, a German researcher who immigrated to the U.S., convinced researchers at the University of Florida at Gainesville to experiment with the use of grapefruit extract as an alternative to then-current chemicals for the protection of fruit and vegetables from mold damage. They were impressed by the ability of the extract to inhibit the growth of bacteria, mold, and fungi as well as other organisms. A modified form of the extract became a commercial success under the name Citricidal. Tests conducted by the U.S.D.A. indicated that Citricidal was also effective in inhibiting pathogenic viruses in animals. Since the mid-1980s, the production team at the Citricidal company worked closely with Dr. Harich to improve the manufacturing process, open new facilities, and expand the use of Citricidal beyond it's original application.

Although described simply as Grapefruit Seed Extract, Citricidal is more complex: it is synthesized from the polyphenolic (flavonoid) compounds found in the mixture of grapefruit seeds and pulp that is left over from production of grapefruit juice. The manufacture is described as follows:

Grapefruit pulp and seed is dried and ground into a fine powder.
The powder is dissolved in purified water and distilled to remove the fiber and pectin.
The distilled slurry is spray dried at low temperatures forming a concentrated flavonoid powder.
This concentrated powder is dissolved in vegetable glycerine and heated.
Food grade ammonium chloride and ascorbic acid are added, and this mixture is heated under pressure. The amount of ammonium chloride remaining in finished Citricidal is 15-19%; the amount of ascorbic acid remaining is 2.5-3.0%.
The ammoniated mixture undergoes catalytic conversion using natural catalysts, including hydrochloric acid and natural enzymes. There is no residue of hydrochloric acid after the reaction.
The slurry is cooled, filtered, and treated with ultraviolet light.
The main active components in the finished product are a group of quaternary ammonium chlorides, including benzethonium chloride (illustrated here) or a compound nearly identical to it, that make up about 8-17% of the product. Benzethonium chloride is a well-known synthetic antiseptic agent; it is not added to the grapefruit extract, but is formed from the original grapefruit flavonoids by the ammoniation process. An acute oral toxicity study was performed on Citricidal, demonstrating that it is safe; there have been no reports of toxicity from long-term use of Citricidal.

benzethonium chloride
The action of Citricidal involves weakening the mitochondrial membranes of bacteria and fungi, resulting in death of the organisms. Antiviral activity may be the result of disrupting the integrity of the viral proteins. At normal doses, Citricidal has no adverse effects on plant, animal, or human cells.

As much as I pride myself on being well read and educated, there is always weird crap that pops up like this that surprises me! If only I had known about this sooner.

I appreciate all of the information you have gathered. I am assuming that when you buy this product there is dosage recommendations on the bottle?
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*Humans aren't the only species on earth... we just act like it.

".the oldest task in human history: to live on a piece of land without
spoiling it."
Aldo Leopold (1938)

I bought the 40% solution and put 15 drops in a gallon of water. I've heard of people using from 10 to 25 drops in a gallon with no ill effect. I bought mine at a local health food store.
Tim

>>The action of Citricidal involves weakening the mitochondrial membranes of bacteria and fungi, resulting in death of the organisms. Antiviral activity may be the result of disrupting the integrity of the viral proteins. At normal doses, Citricidal has no adverse effects on plant, animal, or human cells.

That is fascinating, considering bacteria don't even have mitochondria, and as far as I know, the mitochondrial membranes of fungi are no different than those of animals and plants. While the cell membranes of fungi have different sterols in them than animals, I don't believe they are all that different otherwise.

In regard to its antiviral prowess, which viral proteins does it interupt? Why isn't it widely used as an antiviral agent?

I'm not saying it doesn't work, but I guarantee it doesn't work by "weakening mitochondrial membranes of bacteria and fungi" and I have a hard time with the idea that it has proteolytic properties that specifically target viruses.
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Chris Harrison