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Snake densities (via Dr. Harold de Lisle)

RichardFHoyer Oct 28, 2003 10:53 PM

RSN:
Noted you message below of Oct. 10 tried you suggestion>

Richard F. Hoyer

TABLE
Examples of Snake Density
Carphophis amoenus (Kansas) 375-729 per hectare
Coluber constrictor (Kansas) 3-7
Diadophis punctatus (Kansas) 719-1849
Elaphe obsoleta (Maryland) less than 1
Elaphe vulpina (Ontario) 1-3
Heterodon nasicus (Kansas) 2-10
Heterodon platirhinos (Kansas) 1-7
Lampropeltis calligaster (Kansas) less than 1
Lampropeltis getula californiae (California) 0.66
Lampropeltis triangulum syspila (Kansas) less than 1
Masticophis taeniatus 0.15-0.33
Opheodrys aestivus (Arkansas) 429
Opheodrys vernalis (Illinois) 189
Pituophis c. catenifer (California) 0.12
Pituophis c. deserticola (Utah) 1-3
Regina alleni (Florida) 1289
Storeria dekayi (Ontario) 7-24
Thamnophis butleri (Michigan) 4-9
(Ontario) 13-40
Thamnophis couchii (California) 1
Thamnophis elegans (California) 2.5
Thamnophis proximus (Texas) 16-61
Thamnophis sauritus (Michigan) 10-48
Thamnophis sirtalis (Michigan) 16-34
(Kansas) 2-8
(Illinois) 19
Virginia striatula (Texas) 229-348
Agkistrodon contortrix (Kansas) 6-9
Crotalus cerastes (California) 0.7
Crotalus viridis lutosus (Utah) 0.49
Crotalus viridis oreganus (California) 0.68
*******************************************************

Replies (15)

RSNewton Oct 29, 2003 12:25 PM

My suggestion works!

Here is a different set of numbers from a recent paper

Brian K. Sullivan 2000. Long-term shifts in snake populations: a California site revisited. Biological Conservation 94:321-325

Number of individuals of each snake taxon encountered during surveys at Corral Hollow Road, California, 1978 and 1979

Arizona elegans 13
Coluber constrictor 10
Crotalus viridis 45
Diadophis punctatus 3
Lampropeltis g. californiae 17
Hypsiglena torquata 2
Masticophis flagellum 6
Masticophis lateralis 4
Pituophis m. catenifer 152
Rhinochielus lecontei 5
Tantilla planiceps 3

Number of individuals of each snake taxon encountered during surveys at Corral Hollow Road, California, 1995 and 1997

Arizona elegans 6
Coluber constrictor 7
Crotalus viridis 247
Diadophis punctatus 1
Lampropeltis g. californiae 19
Hypsiglena torquata 5
Masticophis flagellum 6
Masticophis lateralis 2
Pituophis m. catenifer 139
Rhinochielus lecontei 6
Tantilla planiceps 0

These numbers are quite different than those of Harold De Lisle's numbers, especially for Crotalus viridis, P. m. catenifer and L. g. californiae. It may be due to the different methods of survey and to the fact that this road is optimal habitat for C. viridis and P. m. catenifer and, to a lesser extent, L. g. californiae.

RichardFHoyer Oct 29, 2003 03:00 PM

RS:
If is interesting how individuals look at the same set of figures and come up with different interpretations. I have not read either the original paper or the one you cite. I could easily change my mind once I reviewed both but as for the data you show, I have just the opposite reaction as the the author as implied in his title. Instead of showing long-term shifts, I find it remarkable the two sets of data are similar indicating a rather static situation rather than a shift.

The disparities can potentially be explained by a number of considerations and varibles that have to exist in these two studies such as weather, finer points in methods, experience and skill differences between researhers, chance, etc.

Comparison with the De Lisle table of densities in hectares is somewhat difficult unless some additional details are present in the 'road' studies.

Some time ago I commented on the apparent low densities of some species shown in the De Lisle's table. Here again, the devil is in the details (methods/area researched). And as mentioned above, there are many other factors that can account for the results obtained in some research efforts. I find it hard to imagine a gopher snake population in which there is only one snake per every 9-10 hectares as indicated by the 0.12 gopher snakes/ha. mentioned. I suspect that perhaps unoccupied former habitat was involved such as cultivated land, or land of marginal or non-suitable habitat was included, or some other explanation. Also, most research of this kind is reported in conservative ways and thus the norm is to understate reality in order to avoid overstating densities.

I began a pilot study of a gopher snake population at a wildlife area (reclaimed WW-2 army base) here in the Willamette Valley of W. Oregon. I dropped the effort when the individual who wished to get his feet wet in field work sort of drifted off. But I have all of the data and recently was going to extract some 'minimum' densities which off the top of my head would be in the neighborhood of from 2-4 to 6-8 gopher snakes per ha., possibly greater. What I refer to as 'minimum' densities, that is the number of individual specimens found at one time (one day or few days) on a plot of land.

And yes, your suggested did pan out.

Richard F. Hoyer

RSNewton Oct 29, 2003 07:07 PM

Here are some more details about method and investigator. The author drives slowly along the road from one end to another during late spring to early summer, in the late afternoon to evening hours (1800-2300 h). Each snake encountered is recorded as to location and SVL and released off the road. The author spent more hours driving in the 70's but the 90's were wetter. The wetter condition probably accounted for the increase in Pituophis and Crotalus sightings. In the 90's, vehicle traffic has increased. Off road vehicle usage at Carnegie SVR, an off road state recreational area, has degraded some of the habitat off the road. Yet, as you noted, the number of species and frequency of sighting appear similar for both periods. The "shift" in snake density is probably referring to the increase in Pituophis and Crotalus sightings. The wetter conditions probably account for the increase in these two species.

As the author notes, these two species like to venture onto roads and press their bodies against the road surface. This behavior may account for their disproportionally high numbers in the road survey sample. It may also account for the low numbers in De Lisle's study if a different method is used, since gopher snakes spend most of their time underground or under surface objects when they are not out on road surfaces. One surprising result is the lack of any species of Thamnophis on this road.

Fundad Oct 31, 2003 01:39 PM

Mr. Hoyer I have a little site on less than a acre of land that I have set up near the coast in the coastal grassland.........

The open area is appox 1 square mile..... I have 12 boards and 1 black tarp that are spread out appox 20 feet from each other in a circle in less an acre of the open land..... The site was set up 2 years ago... the first year the new cover had not developed and my findings were minimal.... but this spring in this appox one acre I found the following......

2 4 ft Coachwhips
5 differnt Helleri
8 different Cal Kings
4 different Gopher Snakes

2 different Ringneck Snakes

I don't not for one minute believe that I found all the animals in that acre....

thats 19 large snakes in that one acre.....

It will be interesting to see the results this spring.........

Not only do I beleive Harold's numbers to be completly wrong, I believe the method's used to be primative in his study. To post
such unrealistic numbers in a scientific commuity is a misleading and untruthful.

Fundad

RSNewton Nov 02, 2003 09:42 AM

8 kingsnakes in one acre is impressive. I think your figures for the other snakes could have been higher if not for the presence of kingsnakes. I doubt that there would be snakes of any species found under the same cover as the kingsnakes unless the kingsnakes are satiated at the time. You may have unwittingly set up a snack bar or restaurant for the ophiophagous kingsnakes with your boards and tarp.

RichardFHoyer Nov 01, 2003 04:54 PM

R.S. and Brian:
Might clear up one point that being the table presented by Dr. De Lisle was undoubtedly densities he either obtained from some review article or which he extracted from individual published studies. I recognize a number of density figures as having been published by Dr. Henry Fitch and associates in Kansas. So I suspect that none were derived from studies conducted by Dr. De Lisles himself. Consequently, he was only reporting information that appeared in published accounts and although as you know Brian, I too was amazed at some of the lower densities, one needs to view how and where the studies were conducted along who conducted these studies before being able to reach a solid opinion one way or the other about the significance of any of the individual data .

One point Dr. De Lisle made that was right on target was the trend shown by the density data in which the very small species had much higher densities than the largest species. This is precisely what one would expect and the data substantiated that scenario.

Secondly, according to the figures you copied R.S., there was a (probably non-significant) decrease of 13 Pituophis and not an increase from the 1970's study to the 1990's study.

What I find of considerable interest is the implications with respect to species numerical abundance as it relates to the issue of road mortality. A number of individuals on this and other forums and web sites have climbed onto the bandwagon that has promoted the notion that road mortality has a serious, significant negative impact on snake populations. As you may recall Brian, I questioned this notion a couple of years ago as that entire scenrio does not jive with either my understanding of population biology or from my field experience. And as you may recall, my position was immediately take to task and questioned by a number of individuals.

The data copied by R.S. (after an 18 - 19 year interval on the same stretch of road) does not lend support to the contention that road mortality of snakes has a seriouly impact, at least on that particular road.

Richard F. Hoyer

RSNewton Nov 01, 2003 07:30 PM

Hi, you are correct about my misread of the Pituophis numbers. Nevertheless, on Corral Hollow Road, small snakes do not seem to outnumber large species. Perhaps this road is in a dry area (being near the edge of the Central Valley) and small species adapted to mesic habitats (e.g. ringnecks snakes) are less abundant here. Sullivan speculates that perhaps this species does not like to venture onto roads. This is unlikely since in my experience, ringnecks do venture onto road surfaces.

In support of your theory on the effect of roads on snake populations, Sullivan remarks:

"Somewhat surprisingly, the percentage of DOR snakes
did not increase in the 1990s (54%) relative to the 1970s
(59%)."

I have not heard your reason why roadkills do not have an effect on snake populations. It seems counterintuitive but I am open to any reasoned explanation.

RichardFHoyer Nov 02, 2003 04:30 PM

RS:
As to the frequency of snakes on open surfaces (such as roads), I suggest that difference in basic biology can explain these results. Highly secretive species that tend to remain under cover would be less likely to venture onto large open areas. As of a year or so ago, there was a study being conducted at the Savannah Nat. Hist. Reserve (I believe) in which preliminary findings demonstrated behavioral difference between species in their movement onto road surfaces.

At the former Adair army base north of Corvallis and now known as the E. E. Wilson Wildlife area, the Ringneck Snake occurs in much higher densities and far more abundant than the Gopher Snake. During my Rubber Boa field efforts on the wildlife area, I have rarely seen Ringneck Snakes on the surface during daylight hours let alone crossing any of the extensive crisscross roads on the wildlife area. But now and then observing a gopher snake on the surface and on the roads is not unusual. The situation may be somewhat different at night but I suspect that here too, in relation to numerical abundance, the relative frequency of such ventures by secretive snakes is not nearly as high as some of the other 'less secretive' species.

Of all factors that cause species' attrition, I find road mortality no more meaningful than shooting, old age, starvation, predation, dispatching with a stick or hoe, parasites, disease, accidents, freezing, etc. Unless a single agent of mortality, or in combination with all other agents (include removal by collecting), exceeds the capacity of a species to sustain its numbers via reproduction, a species' population will tend to remain relatively static in relation to existing environmental conditions of food, cover, weather, etc.

Where I have encountered a good number of DOR snakes, I have interpreted such observations to indicate a 'healthy'
population of that species occurs in adjacent habitat. When I have observed cottontail rabbits, oppossums, skunks, ground squirrels, raccoons, pheasants, jack rabbits, deer, tree squirrels, spade-foot toads, barn owls, kangaroo rats, etc. road killed with considerable frequency, I view these situations as indicating the populations of such species to be relatively abundant in nearby habitats. This is easily observed with cyclic species such as the Black-tailed Jack Rabbit in which road mortitly is high during the high end of the population cycle and virtually non-existent during the low end of the population cycle.

One also needs to take into consideration the mean home range area of various snake species. Perhaps for some species,
population denisities may be reduced near well traveled roads but such mortality could not possibly adversely affect the species as a whole in any significant manner unless their habitat was unduly fragmented by numerous crisscross roads. This certainly can be the case near human developments. But even here, I have observed a reasonable numbers of snake species in suitable habitat right up to where gravel or paved shoulders occur. I cannot recall a single road or highway in which I have not been able to find snakes of various species along the right of way where suitable habitat exists.

I have also observed a number of species occurring in the median between freeway lanes and populations sustaining themselves on 'islands' created by roads and interstates highways. My son Ryan showed me such a situation when he lived in San Jose in which I believe he found both Gopher Snakes and Racers doing quite well in an isolated triangular island between freeways and a housing development or commercial area. One of my Rubber Boa study sites is on such an island at the south side of Salem, Oregon. And before they widen the I-5 freeway, one of my best sites was next to that freeway south of Salem.

There is the fact that on some roads, over many decades,
road mortality is continuing to occur in decent numbers. If snake populations were seriously reduced, one would expect such road mortality to decline precipitously to the point of almost never occuring after only a short period of time. That some measured declined probably has occurred on some roads can be explained by host of factors only one of which is direct mortality.

That being said, every specimen killed reduces the population of a species one snake at a time. Clearly there is some impact but my point being that such mortality does not have any lasting affect on populations. After all, surely the number of individual specimens per species lost via predation far exceeds, many times over, the mortality that occurs on roads and do we ring our hands over such predation as having a serious, negative impact on snake populations?

On the Field Herpers forum awhile back, it was noted that over collecting has occurred with respect to the Gray-banded Kingsnake on some stretch of road(s) in Texas. Though anecdotal, this scenario does not seem unreasonable. So clearly removal (either by collecting or road mortality) has the potential of reducing a population near the roadway. But that is not the same thing as indicating overall snake populations are seriously impacted in a negative manner by road moratlity (or collecting).

Admittedly, I have not taken the time to fully inform myself on this issue. But when others first mentioned this point of road mortality and used a citation (by Rosen and Lowe) to support their contention, I obtained a reprint of that study thanks to John Gunn (formerly on this site). Depited the author's contention, their data (or lack thereof) clearly does not support their stated position that road mortality impact snake populations in a serious, negative manner. So the results reported by Sullivan on the percent DORs observed and in paricular, the data on numbers of specimens observed during the first and second study, is of no real surprise.

Richard F. Hoyer

RSNewton Nov 02, 2003 10:09 PM

Hi, that is a very reasoned explanation of why road mortalities should not affect snake populations in general. Snakes, unlike other herps, may not need to go to a particular area to reproduce. For example, frogs and salamaders often have to migrate to breeding ponds or streams, and if a road bisects the terrestrial habitat and a breeding site, large numbers of breeding adults and metamorphs can become roadkills. Perhaps the effect of roads on the breeding migrations of some herps was in the back of my mind when I was thinking about the effect of roads on snake populations.

Of course it is also possible that natural selection will make sure that those individuals that spend too much time on road surfaces will have a much lower probability of contributing to the gene pool.

RichardFHoyer Nov 03, 2003 12:15 PM

No matter my efforts to review my posts, errors seem to be inevitable. Some of the more glaring----

'Wring' vs 'ring' (third paragraph from end).

'Despite' the author's--rather than 'Depicted' (last paragraph).

Throughout parts of the discussion, live as well as dead snakes on roads should have been included.

Richard F. Hoyer

Jeff Schofield Nov 05, 2003 12:18 AM

I started to respond to this on the other forum but its down right now. I think there is some significant data here but it would be made much more useful if the dept of Transportation was contacted to find the traffic statistics of that road at these times.There is NO statistical significance to any differences besides the crots and weather would account for that....It would be more inclusive if AORs were distinguished from DORs.Further, now that a couple sets of data exist that is a good place to attempt density studies.For example the continued study with the temporary removal of a single species(say a years collecting)that would not only interpret density but corresponding predation. I did a road kill study for Big Cypress Nat Pk back in the early 90s and found that there was significant road kill due to predation on OTHER EXISTING road kill(nerodia,panther,etc).
Lastly, it doesnt sound like there is any CRITICAL habitat within that study site.Identifying critical habitat and distances from it would give us better data for home ranges and minimum sizes for land designations.Its applying the data that counts,Jeff

RichardFHoyer Nov 07, 2003 01:30 PM

Jeff:
Would have responded sooner but my phone was not working for a couple of days. Below I have posted part of RS Newton's post which provides the percent DOR snakes in both studies.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by: RSNewton at Sat Nov 1 19:30:13
In support of your theory on the effect of roads on snake populations, Sullivan remarks:

"Somewhat surprisingly, the percentage of DOR snakes
did not increase in the 1990s (54%) relative to the 1970s
(59%)."

I have not heard your reason why roadkills do not have an effect on snake populations. It seems counterintuitive but I am open to any reasoned explanation.
---------------------------------------------------------------

I have only reviewed the one study on snake road mortality by Rosen and Lowe. Those authors conducted a study on a road in Arizona in which they cite unpublished road mortality data on the same stretch of road accumulated by another individual about 40 year previously. The manner in which the study was performed I felt was guite good. But it was abundantly clear that the lead author exhibited a strong bias in believing that such road mortality seriously impacted snake populations. Their own data did not support that contention and in fact, that the paper omits yearly figures (4 year study) which would have been a standard procedure, is in itself quite revealing. Quite likely, the yearly data on road kill would not have supported the contentions the author made with respect to serious, negative impact on snake populations and thus was ommitted. Also lacking in that paper was any mention of what had transpired to that section of road during the intervening 40 years. If any resurfacing, widening, shoulder treatment or widening, grading, spraying for weed control, etc. had taken place (as well as increased traffic), all could have potential affects on the number of snake attempting to cross a road along with the potential affects of outright killing of snake by getting run over. And as you allude, scavenging by coyotes, racoons, opossums, skunks, etc. may increase predation rates over time.

The entire subject of road mortality of snakes, by the very nature of having many, many variables, is far more complex than I believe has been understood by those that have attempted to undertake such studies. And last, I have not seen where such researchers have attempted to address the basic principles of population biology in relation to the road mortality issue. (See my post to RS Newton that covers my views and reasoning on the topic in this same thread.).

Richard F. Hoyer

Jeff Schofield Nov 07, 2003 02:43 PM

I think the most that could come out of a study such as this is from the Dept of Trans. because if the USE(by herps) and the MORTALITY has stayed constant and the TRAFFIC has increased....That in itself is all the data needed to refute any road kill bias' in that terrain.Further, it would certainly have an impact when it comes to collecting laws that apply in areas of road hunting.I believe that using our resources is the best way to protect them in the long run,Jeff

RichardFHoyer Nov 08, 2003 03:11 PM

Jeff:
I'm not sure I understand the gist of the points mentioned in your last post.

That being said, on this and other forums or sites, I have mentioned that from my understanding of population ecology, the factors of 'collecting' and 'road mortality' should generally have no lasting impact on populations (snakes included) any more than other forms of yearly attrition (hunting, trapping, freezing, starvation, predation, etc.) in which individuals are removed from the general population of a species. And this is why I have been astounded at some of the comments made by wildlife biologists (supposedly versed in the tenets of wildlife science and population dynamics) and some of the nonsense regulations adopted by wildlife agencies dealing with non-games species including herps.

Richard F. Hoyer

Jeff Schofield Nov 09, 2003 05:48 PM

Richard, while is is all but impossible for the road to have LESS traffic than the previous study,it would therefore be significant because the populations(AOR and DOR)were stable. In fact if you had exact traffic stats(cars per day) it may be applicable data to be compared/contrasted with different locales during any given interval. If population has doubled there(for example)and traffic has doubled but road use for herps remains constant.....THAT is a statistic NO biologist worth his salt could refute.Good luck,Jeff

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