Reptile & Amphibian Forums

In regards to your comments below...

I haven't seen one shred of evidence that there is a god running the show, so I, of course, am an athiest

I guess you just haven't looked hard enough. There is none so blind as he who will not see!

(And, no Eric East, I'm not corrupting your children or anyone else's, just because I don't share your self-righteous beliefs).

I didn't say that you not sharing my self-righteous beliefs was the cause of corruption. You don't have to believe in God to have morals. If you are an atheist, that's your right. I may disagree with your choice, but I respect your right to make it.
My comments were not a slap at athiests as you suggest. I have no problem with atheists, but I do have a big problem with anti-theists (someone who not only doesn't believe in God, but doesn't want anyone else to either) & that is who I was refering to when I said that our children are being lied to.

Do I think that athiests are smarter than the rest? In regards to not believing in something that hasn't been proven, YES Oldherper I certainly do!

It's not a matter of intelligence. It's a matter of faith. Everyone places their faith in something or someone. Christians just happen to place their's in Jesus Christ. No one said that we christians don't have doubts or questions, of course we do, and it's for that very reason that it is called faith & not fact. We do agree on one thing though, and this is we will both die.
If you are right, we will simply rot away & that will be that, no judgement, no heaven, no hell.
If i'm right, we will both bow at the feet of Jesus. One out of reverence & the other out of fear.
One will here Him say: Well done my good & faithful servant! The other will here Him say: Away from me, I never knew you! One will enter heaven & the other will enter hell! It's really that simple.
I can live with you being right; although I pray that you're not. However, are you willing to take the chance that i'm right?

God bless!

Eric

Eric,

Sandfly said:
I haven't seen one shred of evidence that there is a god running the show, so I, of course, am an athiest

You responded:
I guess you just haven't looked hard enough. There is none so blind as he who will not see!

My response:
Apparently you don't have any proof either, or you would have presented it. You, as fundamentalists often do, suggest that people who don't believe what you do are somehow defective -"if only you were willing, you could see the truth" is what you seem to be saying.

Do you really think that you are somehow more insightful than others who don't believe in your god? Do you think you were born with this ability to see a particular god? Do you think you learned it? Answer that question please.

Eric said:
My comments were not a slap at athiests as you suggest. I have no problem with atheists, but I do have a big problem with anti-theists (someone who not only doesn't believe in God, but doesn't want anyone else to either) & that is who I was refering to when I said that our children are being lied to.

My response:
I don't care if others believe in a god or spirits. I told my daughter that no one can tell her that there are no gods, or spirits, but no one can say there are either. But I don't want people to be fundamentalists. I see fundamentalists to be walking in darkness, and I hope that everyone on earth can experience life without belief systems that turn them away from the light of reality. In many people's opinion, its the fundamentalists who are lying - to themselves, and demanding that others are equally unwilling to face reality.

Eric said:
If you are right, we will simply rot away & that will be that, no judgement, no heaven, no hell.
If i'm right, we will both bow at the feet of Jesus. One out of reverence & the other out of fear.

Should I really fear your god in the afterlife Eric? What will he do to me? Torture? What sort of god demands adoration? Do you think its reasonable to believe that your god demands you respect him, and if you don't he will torture you? does that really seem like the behavior of an all knowing being?

Joe

I talked at length with someone who was studying to be a reverend. After 3 1/2 years of studying, he was thrown out of a bible school because, after learning, Greek, Latin, he read the original text of the bible (not the king James version) and came to the conclusion (because that is what it said) that everyone that is going to heaven has already been determined by god. Makes sense. If there is a god, he knows if you are going to heaven the moment you are born. If that is true, nothing you or I do will change whether we go to heaven or not.

(The church doesn't like that kind of thinking because they loose control over people that way.)

Rodney

Since God is omniscient, He knows everthing about us, including the choices we will make in life. He gives us free will & what we do with it is our responsibility.
Perhaps the most amazing thing about Him is that he loves the unbeliever just as much as the believer.

Eric

If you think your god gives you free will how can he know what you're going to do? If we're free to make decisions, no one, not even your god can know what we are going to do. If he does, we aint free.

And more importantly, why do you bother making all this stuff up? I know a number of very intelligent people who are religous, but they don't resort to the make believe fundamentalists do.

Joe

np
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

mp
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Apparently you don't have any proof either, or you would have presented it.

All the proof I need is in creation. It takes a whole lot more faith to believe in evolution than it does to believe everything was created by God.

You, as fundamentalists often do, suggest that people who don't believe what you do are somehow defective -"if only you were willing, you could see the truth" is what you seem to be saying.

Except for the defective part,( I don't believe you're defective at all, just misinformed) that is exactly what i'm saying.

I don't care if others believe in a god or spirits. I told my daughter that no one can tell her that there are no gods, or spirits, but no one can say there are either.

Good, you don't discourage others from believing. Then it's obvious my comment wasn't directed at you.

Should I really fear your god in the afterlife Eric? What will he do to me? Torture? What sort of god demands adoration? Do you think its reasonable to believe that your god demands you respect him, and if you don't he will torture you? does that really seem like the behavior of an all knowing being?

If you don't believe in Him or is Son, then yes, you should fear Him!
The afterlife is about choices, & we all have just 2 choices, accept or reject Him. If we accept Him & His Son, we will have eternal life with Him in heaven. If we reject Him, He will not torture us, but he will allow us to receive what we chose; to spend eternity in torture.

Eric

You say we are blind...But I don't think it is blindness..It is interpretation. Someone sees a Butterfly and says, "What beauty" another, "What a miracle" and the third, "there is an insect whos young threaten my crops".

What annoys me is the bad habbit most of the religious have of thinking those who disagee with them are not capable of independant thought..."Oh your not willing to see...If you were you would know. Pure Trash!

Sorry If I am wrong I will not quiver and bow in fear before a God. I will stand as an honest man. I really could not bow to or respect a petty, vengeful god.
Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Frank

I believe you are an honest & good man. I have no reason to believe otherwise. However, that has nothing to do with what you will do when, or if you're correct, IF you see God face to face. I assure you, you WILL bow & if not out fear, then out of sorrow, knowing it's too late.

Eric

Why would I bow out of sorrow?...I do not reget being honest.

As far as proof goes...The party that proposes a theory is the one that needs to prove his point. That is how logic works. The lack of any evidence to support your theory is the only proof needed.
Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."