Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey,

I just saw in the kingsnake classified section a f2 male gaboon rhino cross for $1000!! Does seem right to you? The ad also mentioned the price was dropped!!

I was under the impression that pure bloodline CB's were the most prized animals.

Is it just me, or does that price seem a bit high?

Peter F.

because there are dumb@sses that will pay the money. Just like there are dumb@sses that will pay $5000 for an albino eastern diamondback. You've heard of the expression there's a sucker born every minute, haven't you?

dear tj;

how ya doin son? I happen to be kinda offended by your comments about people buying gaboon rhino crosses as being dumb@$$es. I have bought a total of 8 gabinos after Hellfires F2's were born and i couldnt be more impressed by the hardiness and vigor these animals possess, not to mention extraordinary coloration. Do you dislike these creatures because they are hybrids, if so they are a naturally ocurring hybrid between two closely related species that occur in the same area, the same can also be said for puff adder gaboon crosses ( although i dont believe they have been produced in captivity yet but you can see a pic of this wonderfully colored and patterned in A Guide to the Reptiles of East Africa, incidentally there is also a pic of a rhino in that book that looks identical to one of my crosses FUNNY huh ). I am also going to go out on a limb here, judging by your post you also dislike all the designer boa and python morphs being produced in this modern day and age. Tell me have you ever owned any of these designer reptiles and also i dont mean to be nosy but what is the most expensive smake that you own/have bought.

On a side note next time when your trying to make a point do it a bit more tactfully. Perhaps you should invest in Charm School

Good Night Son

You can be as offended as you want, I could give a rats@ss. If you're dumb enough to buy an animal for $1000 (unless something truly extraordinary), and someone is dumb enough to buy one off of you, then more power to ya. If you think buying an animal for extreme amounts of money makes you something special, then you muist be dumber than I anticipate. I kinda pride myself on paying nowhere near what people ask for certain animals (it's good for one's retirement...if they actually have a "job". There is absolutely nothing special about hybrids, except the fact that DUMB@SSES will pay the money for them, just like there are DUMB@SSES that will pay the money for venomoids. If you don't like my opinion, TOO FREAKIN' BAD! It's mine, I like it, and if you don't, that's fine. Mardi Snipes has some cottonheads for sale for $300, that sounds like a reasonable price....you should buy em' and sell em' for $1000, someone will pay it (then you can add to YOUR "retirement".
As far as the "son" thing goes, you should stop watching wrestling so much, "stone cold". It went out like 5 years ago.
Ta-Ta and don't worry, I'm sure my words didn't hurt any of your business, some DUMB@SS WILL buy, trust me. Hell, you did, remember?

I did attend Charm School, but it was over-run by greedy, grubby, job-less dealers, who incidentally, didn't care about the hobby or animals at all. Instead, they only cared about what they can sell and for how much, or what stolen piece of merchandise they can trade for a venomoid cobra (I'm sure if you look in some of the classifieds in the past on venomousreptile.org you'll see what I'm talking about) . You're no different than the rest of them, you get bent out of shape when someone with an opinion chimes in, because you know it's the truth and some willing buyer MAY have second thoughts.
Later, sparky.

Twinky,

whats up son? To start with, its funny that you know about the "son" thing maybe you should quit watching so much wrestling hahaha. Secondly, I dont know were you got the idea that Im a greedy grubby dealer, because im not im a hobbyist who has an eye for unusual and quality animals. If i see an animal that i want or need to have to incorporate into a breeding project i will buy that animal as long as its in great health. I dont mind paying a that kind of money for a quality, unusual animal that you dont see around everyday. Last, i happen to like gabinos,
its my opinion, i like it, and if you dont like it fine, i spend my hard earned money on what i want to spend it on and if you dont like that twinky TOO FREAKIN BAD!!!!!!!!
now tj crawl back down into your little dark hole and sit there with your cheap animals. I sure hope you dont lose any sleep over my buying gabinos =).

See ya later twinky j

lol, now that's funny. You have quite a way with words, and your writing ability is equally impressive.
Back to my hole.

Hey, if you ask me the gaboonXrhinos are worth every penny..... They have crazy colors and are eating machines..... I have a few F2s myself....... Not many people have such stunning animals...... Infact I only know of 4 of us that are keeping F2s...... I think all hot should be over priced........ Keeping prices low does nothing for the hobby..... It actually hurts it because any dumbass can drop 100 bucks on a gaboon...... See what I am getting at....... EarthMover, people that do not own or cant afford high end reptiles will never understand...... You are wasting you breath my friend.....LOL.....

He is wasting his breath, as are you. I'm not at all impressed with the fact that you pay thousands of dollars for snakes that really aren't worth a crap, you may disagree, but that's the beauty of having an opinion. I'm not at all against spending a thousand dollars on a snake, or even more, if it's a truly rare snake. GaboonxRhino crosses aren't that rare to me, so if you want to spend the money, that's your prerogative. The initial question was why they are so expensive, and I gave my opinion, neither of you happened to like it, so what? I won't lose any sleep. I'm happy with my collection, my retirement, and my bank account. Spending money on flavor of the year animals doesn't make you big shots by any means, not to me at least. I'm going to go back to my hole, while you two rub a few out to your expensive hybrids. Enjoy.

dealing with difficult people is the title of a book. in this book it says the easiest way to deal with difficult people is to just agree with them, so i will just agree with you now because your are beginning to bore me it was funny in the beginning now it is redundant ( you can find that word in any dictionary if you dont know what that means ) so now you can crawl back in your hole andenjoy yourself knowing that i agree with you

You actually had to read a book to figure that out?

There is supply and there is demand. This dictates the "value" of bread, gas, diamonds, snakes, dogs...heck, just about anything.

I've seen people drops huge amounts of cash on "beanie babies", sports memorabilia, the latest golf equipment and classic cars and these are things I have absolutely ZERO interest in.

In all fairness, if I were to label these folks as dumbarses...they might take offense as was the case in this thread.

In fact, most people that watch wrestling and keep venemous snakes are often labeled as dumbarses by the community at large. On that ironic note...enjoy your snakes and to each their own. (After all, isn't it the governments job to tell us how we should live? LOL)

FYI- There is also an economic concept called utility theory. I have a friend that makes close to 200k a year but works long hours etc. So, he's willing to pay more for what he likes and for convenience because an extra couple hundred doesn't phase him and he likes to enjoy his free time & hobbies. So, paying an exorbitant charge to have a TV shipped to your house instead of picking it up might be crazy for me but not for him.

-Happy Herping

I have been a long time reader of many a thread on this forum, and have never posted. I try to stay away from doing so due to the overwhelming need for people to critisize others. I am a huge venomous collector. Having over 50 venomous animals from varyious species, I happen to think that Rhino/Gabby crosses are outstanding looking animals. I do not own any, and its partially due to the price they go for. I do own Rhinos and Gabbys, and hope to interbreed the 2 types soon. I am not a big believer in mixing species, however a naturally occuring interbreed I find no problem with. Being that you can buy a Gabby and a Rhino for under $150.00 a piece it does seem silly to spend $1000.00 or more for a naturally occuring mix. However, being a collector and breeder myself, I do know what it takes to house, feed, clean, and deal with these types of animals. I feel that you should be able to charge whatever you want for your animals, and if someone wants to pay for it, its because they like what they see, and feel its worth it. I have seen some monitor lizards go for $125,00 (pure white nile monitor). Would I buy it, probably not, but someone who sees it as an investment will. I just think if you do buy something that seems overpriced to someone else, you shouldnt be deemed a dumb@ass. As a buyer, if you feel you are getting something exceptional, then no price is too high. If you dont like the price someone is asking for something then dont buy it. Plain and simple. I have spent a ton of money on some animals others would look at and say you have to be kidding, but to me they were worth every penny. Just my 2 cents.

TJ has always something smart ass to say about someone or any question they ask.
Joe

I have my opinions on certain things, he asked a question, I answered. If you don't like it, don't read it. You'll never change the way I feel about certain things, you're not significant enough to me. People have their opinions and voice them, as do I. Are you even old enough to keep hots? I remember asking you a question quite some time ago about how you kept hots in FL, yet you are 17? You said that they weren't yours, yet almost every week you talk about buying this and keeping that, now how is this possible? You chimed in and asked me a question, and I answered, now can you answer mine?

my names earthmover and im awesome!!!!!!!!!!!
i sure do love my gaboon rhino crosses.
moving on.
tj you just need to shut your cake hole and go away. nobody wants to hear you opinions. go back to your hole you small minded imbecile.

GOOD DAY SONNY BOY

.

Yes your honor, I can answer your question. First off my name "Venom17" doesnt reflect my age as I'm 19. I was working with hots since I was 13. I had that oppurtunity since I had a family member who has had their hot license. When I was 18, I got my own license since I completed over a 1000 hours work? I'm not trying to start "internet wars" but when people ask questions ect, you dont need to be a smart ass.

Joe

I don't need to be a smart@ss, but since I'm a firm believer in the first amendment, I can be, especially when it comes to certain topics. I've been in here for quite some time now, I would think most of the regs know how I much of a smar@ss I can be. If they don't like what I say, I would think they wouldn't bother reading my posts, you are free to do the same. I will continue to be a smar@ss and throw out my opinions on certain topics if I so choose to, regardless of what you or anyone else has to say about it.

Tom, he has a FL venomous permit. If you'd like, I'll fax you a copy. He sent it to me when he purchased aspers from me.

At least they're spending their well earned money on a pretty snake, and not a piebald ball python. I have to agree that keeping prices high is a very effective way of keeping the unqualified out of the hobby. If I received a nickel from K-snake.com for ever request for "Cheap" terciopelos, I'd have my next Costa Rica trip paid for. I'll feed the neonates to a mussurana before I sell them to inexperienced keepers.

Matt

High prices is a way to keep the unqualified out of the hobby? Matt, we both know that's not true, look at the prices for venomoids, that doesn't stop anyone. The fact is, from what I've seen in the past number of months, there are a large number of people that will give their next born just to have the latest flavor. High prices won't keep anyone out of the hobby, any jack@ss with a paper route can save up long enough for a $1000 snake. A permit system with higher permit fees and making people buy insurance policies is about the only to weed the riff-raff out, look at how much people whined when they raised FL's permits to $100. Sadly,I can see the hobby going away before regulations get any stiffer. I did have a point to my whole madness, at this point, I'm not going to bother. I did receive that money the other day, thanks.

True, the venomoids will attract the unqualified much like the novice climber will take out a second mortgage to climb Mt. Everest. But in the case of the hybrid, they are unique and much prettier than a gaboon....would you pay $1000? No, neither would I, maybe $500, but some people are into the gabino, and think its worth $1000, so let them pay it.

I think dealers have lost touch with reality by advertising ANY snake with the phrase "it can be your FOR ONLY $2000!". Let's get a grip people......these are in fact snakes, which aren't a necessity....they're a luxury or novelty. For 2k, you can have new brakes, shocks, struts, and tires put on a vehicle---those are necessities!

I agree about the permit fees, $5 isn't enough to pay for the ink and paper the licenses are printed on, let alone enforce them. $100 is nothing really for a permit fee either, nor is $400 to obtain personal antivenom but the problem is that suddenly the license and safety requirements to keep them are more than the snakes themselves....I'm not sure what the solution is, but it certainly makes me want to follow a standard far and above that of the average hobbyist. Not that I'm neccarily any more knowledgable about them, but there's a level of respectability and professionalism that I would rather follow. But then again, I certainly don't view my animals simply as "dollars in a deli cup!" which is what most of the reptile dealers see.

You saw my point, DEALERS HAVE LOST TOUCH WITH REALITY, why? Because people will pay the big bucks for the latest animal. Lets face it, dealers want money, and that's it, people will pay the money, and not think anything of it. Here's the problem I see, someone wants to pay $5000 for an albino diamondback, but they're not licensed, money talks and the animals is sold, it happens ALL THE TIME. Hots have become a big business, it's all about the money, resulting in a loss of respectability and professionalism. I too would like to go above and beyond the norm for keeping hots, what one person would like to pay for one of their gabinos, I would like to pay for a safe and stringent permit system. When it comes down to it, people won't pay the money for a good permit system like they would for a $1000 snake. Again, just my opinion, so noone has to agree.

tj,

thats a once in a lifetime oppurtunity for you to get a f2 yearling male gaboon rhino cross for free and from a very reputable dealer that cares fro his animals. i have known jay for a few years and i have never had a problem with his stock. tj i promise you will not be disappointed with that gabino its a great animal. post pics after you get him

great post jay

tata
son

I would never donate or buy anything from "Jay".

I've never dealt with Jay, but I've heard only good things. Don't burn bridges.

MH

Matt, it's not a bridge I need nor want. This forum or hobby isn't a popularity contest for me. I choose who I buy from, if I see business practices WITH MY OWN EYES that I don't condone, I choose someone else. That's not burning bridges, it's protecting myself from any losses or anything otherwise, it also doesn't make me a tool either. I'll buy from very few vendors at the Hamburg shows, whether it be snakes or dart frogs, my list is very small who I'll buy from. If the vendor sells venomoids, primarily wild-caughts, or if I don't like how they carry themselves, I'll go elsewhere. I would think by now you would know how I am about certain issues.

Jay is great guy and I consider him a friend. More than half the snakes I have has come from Jay. I have never had a problem with any of the snakes I have.

Joe

That's your prerogative and I respect that. I'm sure many people buy from him, I'm just not one of them. I also won't buy from Mark Lucas or ERJ. Why? Because that's MY prerogative, therefore I can pick and choose who I buy from. I can honestly say there is really only two people I'd buy from at this point, there was three, but one stopped selling hots. I'd much rather buy from a private breeder who doesn't post in the classifieds. Someone who still values the hobby. It seems everyone now wants to be the next TC.

I’ve watched this thread periodically. And originally, I had no interest in even acknowledging it’s existence…or giving you the satisfaction that someone was reading your soap box antics. However, since I am the one who originally set the prices on the F2 rhino x gaboons (being the individual who produced them and originally offered them for sale), I feel it’s probably time that I offered YOU some of MY opinions on people like yourself and your ideals.

***because there are dumb@sses that will pay the money. Just like there are dumb@sses that will pay $5000 for an albino eastern diamondback. You've heard of the expression there's a sucker born every minute, haven't you?

This would be a great comment and have some merit IF you were speaking of buying fresh Fea’s vipers or hispidus. The before mentioned species are those that are known to be troublesome and those of us that have a few grey hairs in this hobby are aware of that. So generally we tend to stay away from them when they’re offered as new arrivals etc. At least that’s MY opinion and the extent of my knowledge of their success as captives. But, for those that have taken the plunge and aquired these animals, later to be successful with them, my hats off to you and congratulations. I admire them both. And my apologies if there has been a breakthrough on acclimating either that I’m not aware of. However, since I’m assuming that you know absolutely nothing about the rhino x gaboon hybrids (from your attitude and prior comments), your statements are full of ignorance (not an opinion, FACT). But then again, so are most of the other comments you’ve made. I think we would all agree that ANYTHING (not just a snake) is only worth what an individual is willing to pay for it. In the case of these crosses, the price WASN’T set by what someone was willing to pay for it. The price WAS set by what it would take for me to sell them! Breeding the F1 crosses to produce F2’s was a personal accomplishment for myself that I had been working on for years. Although hybrids, that litter meant more to me than any litter or clutch I’ve ever had the pleasure of supervising from ova to thriving offspring within my collection. And truth be known, I’m not a hybrid enthusiast. But I do find the rhino x gaboons highly interesting, and make an absolute exception in their case.

***You can be as offended as you want, I could give a rats@ss. If you're dumb enough to buy an animal for $1000 (unless something truly extraordinary), and someone is dumb enough to buy one off of you, then more power to ya. If you think buying an animal for extreme amounts of money makes you something special, then you muist be dumber than I anticipate. I kinda pride myself on paying nowhere near what people ask for certain animals (it's good for one's retirement...if they actually have a "job" . There is absolutely nothing special about hybrids, except the fact that DUMB@SSES will pay the money for them, just like there are DUMB@SSES that will pay the money for venomoids. If you don't like my opinion, TOO FREAKIN' BAD! It's mine, I like it, and if you don't, that's fine. Mardi Snipes has some cottonheads for sale for $300, that sounds like a reasonable price....you should buy em' and sell em' for $1000, someone will pay it (then you can add to YOUR "retirement" .
As far as the "son" thing goes, you should stop watching wrestling so much, "stone cold". It went out like 5 years ago.
Ta-Ta and don't worry, I'm sure my words didn't hurt any of your business, some DUMB@SS WILL buy, trust me. Hell, you did, remember?

Please give us an example of what you would find to be “truly extraordinary,” as you stated. Could you share with us what animals you currently keep that you feel might be worth $1000? Better yet, could you tell me which vehicle or other possessions you own so we could all judge your past buying decisions?...or judge what you felt was important enough to spend upward of $1000 or more on? Please share with us. You’ve done so good up to this point. The only thing in the above statement you made that I agree with is your stance on venomoids. But the difference is I prefer not to ram it down one’s throat as I’m sure you have a pretty strong opinion on that matter as well. Put the facts out there without offending. You take all of this very personally. You assume that those that purchased the animals think they themselves are special because they’ve purchased the animals. When in reality it’s actually the animals themselves, that the owners think are special. Is it always about you? You state that you pride yourself in not paying anywhere near what people are asking for their animals. It’s people like you that offend breeders with your ridiculously low offers. Are you also the same type to try and turn around and sell that animal for twice what you paid in a year’s time? The sellers aren’t offended because they think they’re better than you. They’re offended because you’ve insulted the time, money, and hard work they’ve invested in the animals they’ve produced. Is any of this becoming more clear for you yet? Lets get to “IF they actually have a job….” That one is my personal favorite. Sure there are numerous folks out there that aren’t trusted and shouldn’t be. Unfortunately this hobby has a tendency to brainwash one into thinking the worst of everyone before actually doing business with them. In some cases, I’m guilty of that myself. But there ARE still some good guys out there, although they may be hard to find amongst the garbage that make a living scamming off people. Maybe your pessimism and negativity do not allow you to see that. From my standpoint, anyone that is a dealer as a full time occupation and has nothing but happy customers, or even unhappy customers that have been treated righteously for the dealers mistake(s), is a stand up individual that is earning a living doing something they absolutely love. And it’s those type of people that pull their ba((s out on the table (not talking about piebalds). Those are the type that take a chance and put forth their best effort. So why knock them down? Jealous that maybe you had to do something for a living that you truly didn’t love? I prefer not to buy from large importers or dealers that I don’t know as well (preferring to buy from smaller breeders like myself). But if I needed that cross that’s for sale for one of my breeding programs, I wouldn’t hesitate to buy it. I’d put it through the same quarantine that I put my new acquisitions through from ANYONE. And if something went wrong, I know that Jay would back it up. Besides, where the hell do you think all the founding animals for todays captive breedings came from? IMPORTERS or FIELD COLLECTORS. Wake up!

***I did attend Charm School, but it was over-run by greedy, grubby, job-less dealers, who incidentally, didn't care about the hobby or animals at all. Instead, they only cared about what they can sell and for how much, or what stolen piece of merchandise they can trade for a venomoid cobra (I'm sure if you look in some of the classifieds in the past on venomousreptile.org you'll see what I'm talking about) . You're no different than the rest of them, you get bent out of shape when someone with an opinion chimes in, because you know it's the truth and some willing buyer MAY have second thoughts.
Later, sparky.

Again, you generalize someone you think is selling stolen property on some other website, not to mention being greedy, grubby, and jobless (not caring about animals as well) with anyone that’s worked hard enough to make a business of this. Am I defending making a business of this because it IS my business? HELL NO, because it’s not my business! I set the price on those animals, I own my own contracting business, and I’m an educated man without a criminal history. Did I miss anything?

***He is wasting his breath, as are you. I'm not at all impressed with the fact that you pay thousands of dollars for snakes that really aren't worth a crap, you may disagree, but that's the beauty of having an opinion. I'm not at all against spending a thousand dollars on a snake, or even more, if it's a truly rare snake. GaboonxRhino crosses aren't that rare to me, so if you want to spend the money, that's your prerogative. The initial question was why they are so expensive, and I gave my opinion, neither of you happened to like it, so what? I won't lose any sleep. I'm happy with my collection, my retirement, and my bank account. Spending money on flavor of the year animals doesn't make you big shots by any means, not to me at least. I'm going to go back to my hole, while you two rub a few out to your expensive hybrids. Enjoy.

Again, you’ve totally missed it. NO-ONE is trying to impress YOU! See how it’s about you again? No one’s even trying to impress you. Simply put, you pi$$ed him off by insulting him with your ignorance and generalizing him with someone that’s on an ego trip. As far as I can tell, the only one that’s on an ego trip is you for how tight you are. You’re proud of it. Good for you, that’s cool that it makes you happy. Even if it upsets you that the amount of money he spent would be equal to a certain amount of spending money from your retirement fund………..who cares?! As far as “rubbing one out” goes. I doubt he does, but if he’s that passionate and excited about the animals he keeps that he might need a squee-gee to clean the glass of his cages off when he’s done admiring them…….more power to him! I’d borrow the squee-gee but I have one of my own. Have you lost your thrill of the beauty of your animals? Do they no longer captivate you? Is there anything that you see in this hobby that makes your heart jump a bit? Or have you just dried out?

***I don't need to be a smart@ss, but since I'm a firm believer in the first amendment, I can be, especially when it comes to certain topics. I've been in here for quite some time now, I would think most of the regs know how I much of a smar@ss I can be. If they don't like what I say, I would think they wouldn't bother reading my posts, you are free to do the same. I will continue to be a smar@ss and throw out my opinions on certain topics if I so choose to, regardless of what you or anyone else has to say about it.

“Regs.” Most of the original regs are gone, including myself. Why? People like you. This forum was first and foremost created with constructive helpful info in mind. In some cases it’s still present. But not like it used to be, and only because the truly helpful people refuse to help those like yourself anymore. It’s a slap in the face to their generosity.

***High prices is a way to keep the unqualified out of the hobby? Matt, we both know that's not true, look at the prices for venomoids, that doesn't stop anyone. The fact is, from what I've seen in the past number of months, there are a large number of people that will give their next born just to have the latest flavor. High prices won't keep anyone out of the hobby, any jack@ss with a paper route can save up long enough for a $1000 snake. A permit system with higher permit fees and making people buy insurance policies is about the only to weed the riff-raff out, look at how much people whined when they raised FL's permits to $100. Sadly,I can see the hobby going away before regulations get any stiffer. I did have a point to my whole madness, at this point, I'm not going to bother. I did receive that money the other day, thanks.
You saw my point, DEALERS HAVE LOST TOUCH WITH REALITY, why? Because people will pay the big bucks for the latest animal. Lets face it, dealers want money, and that's it, people will pay the money, and not think anything of it. Here's the problem I see, someone wants to pay $5000 for an albino diamondback, but they're not licensed, money talks and the animals is sold, it happens ALL THE TIME. Hots have become a big business, it's all about the money, resulting in a loss of respectability and professionalism. I too would like to go above and beyond the norm for keeping hots, what one person would like to pay for one of their gabinos, I would like to pay for a safe and stringent permit system. When it comes down to it, people won't pay the money for a good permit system like they would for a $1000 snake. Again, just my opinion, so noone has to agree

I agree to a portion of your point to a certain extent. I guess we’ll never know what the full point you were trying to make with “your whole madness” because you were too busy insulting everyone with your opinion, then they had to shovel it back, and on and on it went. But I do agree with you if your point is that they are certain people who do not belong in this hobby, especially with venomous. And if you also feel that dealers should be doing a better job of screening before selling….I agree with that as well. But it also angers me to read you pose the question “do you think you’re special?” When no one has asked you, do YOU think YOU’RE special? Do you think that you’re the only one who should be able to keep venomous or any reptiles at all? That no one else out there should be able to enjoy this hobby as well? Here’s the simple truth, the bigger this gets the greater a chance it has of it all crashing down around us. It’s sad to think that the hobby is not going to regulate itself. So, those that have nothing to do with this or know anything about it will regulate it for us “for our own safety.”

***Matt, it's not a bridge I need nor want. This forum or hobby isn't a popularity contest for me. I choose who I buy from, if I see business practices WITH MY OWN EYES that I don't condone, I choose someone else. That's not burning bridges, it's protecting myself from any losses or anything otherwise, it also doesn't make me a tool either. I'll buy from very few vendors at the Hamburg shows, whether it be snakes or dart frogs, my list is very small who I'll buy from. If the vendor sells venomoids, primarily wild-caughts, or if I don't like how they carry themselves, I'll go elsewhere. I would think by now you would know how I am about certain issues.

I agree (without targeting anyone specific). But certainly there are those that I come across that I find do not have a place in this hobby. Sometimes I don’t even like having my animals in the same vicinity as theirs at shows. Agreed.

TJ…I understand where you’re coming from generally. But from the same token, generalizing people is not a constructive way for other people to see the light. If any of my opinions offended you, good. That was my point. If any of my assumptions are wrong, even better. If so, maybe now you know how others feel when you dump on them for no apparent reason. I have no care that “I’m TJ, and these are my opinions..if you don’t like it tough!” BIG DEAL! Are you jumping up and down as you write that? It’s as if you really enjoy irritating the hell out of people…..thriving off irritating others? It seems to me that you’re more upset about the venomoid buyers than anything else. I can understand your anger. But why slam someone that’s happy with their collection and happy with how they’ve spent their money. And just so you know, I don’t practice resale and I don’t import or buy WC collected animals for resale. And I do occasionally advertise on kingsnake. Everything I offer is produced here by myself or is part of a breeding project that I’m no longer working with. If you had any idea how hard it is just to recoup what you’ve invested or even close to the time, money, and blood I have into the quality of my animals….and have to compete with resalers at shows or online offering something similar at lower prices, just to find homes for what I produce at prices that aren’t even close to what those animals are worth to me, Not to mention screening venomous buyers out the a$$, you would have no doubt in your mind that I do this for the love of the hobby. There ARE no other benefits!

Of course these are only my OPPIONS. That makes everything you read null and void. That means none of it really matters anyways right?

Joe @ HellFire Reptiles

So I'm not allowed to have an opinion? I don't want to take up any more forum space, so I'll send you a reply in e-mail.