Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey ya'll....I've got a little problem with Caesar and I'm hoping there is some advice and words of comfort out there.

His last two feedings he ate three f/t fuzzies. I'd been feeding him every seven days, but when he ate three of them, I waited ten days before feeding again because it was such a big meal and I don't want to overfeed him.

Anyhow...I've run out of frozen mice and due to unforseen circumstances, have been unable to get to the local rep shows to buy more. (The only reptile-stocked pet store feeds live and doesn't have any frozen ones). I can't get more frozen ones until December.

So...after ten days of not eating, I went to the pet store and bought two little "hoppers." I dunno if they are hoppers or not, don't know much about mice. But they are pretty small, fully functioning little mice. They were the smallest the store had at the time. They look small enough for him to eat, but bigger than the fuzzies he's used to.

The problem is, I can't bring myself to pre-kill them. I just can't. I was hoping Caesar would just know what to do with a live mouse. He was fed live in the pet store before I bought him, but they were pinks that didn't exactly move around much.

So I put him in his feeding box with one live mouse. Holy cow! I've traumatized my little snake! The mouse didn't hurt him, but he acted much more afraid of it than being hungry in any way. Tail-rattling, HISSSSING, striking at anything that moved...constantly. I left them there for a couple hours, in the quiet, dimly lit room (that he always feeds in) hoping he would settle down...but he wouldn't. He had no interest in eating that poor little mouse (who was by now also quite traumatized, I'm sure, because Caesar struck at it repeatedly...however there are no apparent injuries on the little fella.)

Eventually, I managed to get Caesar back into his cage without getting bitten myself, and put the mouse back with his little friend set up in our old gerbil tank. While I was moving Caesar back to his cage, I noticed that his eyes were blue. *deep sigh* I'm quite sure they were NOT like that when I first put him in the feeding box. Did the stress of the live mouse cause him to "go into shed"? Or did my timing just suck?

Now that he's begun a shed, he's not going to want to eat again for a week. That'll be almost three weeks without food, all told. Will he be ok??? And what to do with those stupid mice? I don't want any pet mice...and I don't even know their sex...I know for sure I don't want any colonies of mice!! Will they still be small enough for him to eat a week from now? Or should I take them back to the pet store? (Not expecting the few cents back for them, just hoping someone else will care for them.)

Thanks ya'll...it's comforting just knowing your out there.

Judy
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1.0 red cape gopher (Caesar)

Judy,
Your little one will be okay. My suggestion is to let him go through his shed cycle. In the meantime, take the live creatures back if you don't want stinky live mice in your home.
Then, go to the "Commercial" page (dealers, stores) here on KS, and scroll down until you find the Feeder businesses. E-mail several to get price quotes for shipping you frozen rodents for Caesar. Even with the shipping, buying a bag is usually cheaper than retail. Please feel free to e-mail me if you want to know which company I use.
Regards & best to your little one,
althea

And how should I feed him between now and December? Should I try live again (either with these two that I have or something smaller if I can find it?)....? Is there is a way to kill them that doesn't involve the use of my own hands or lengthy suffering on their part?

>>The problem is, I can't bring myself to pre-kill them. I just can't. I was hoping Caesar would just know what to do with a live mouse. He was fed live in the pet store before I bought him, but they were pinks that didn't exactly move around much.

Bad move. Forget parasites and biting by the live mice (I've even had a snake lose an eye to a mouse), but you could get a snake "addicted" to live or at least pre-killed. I've had many snakes never go back to an old food source (or only do it with a LOT of effort on my part) after getting something new to eat just once. I wouldd never suggest going from thawed to live on something that can be as sensitive as a cape gophersnake. That just isn't a good idea in my opinion. It is best, even if a hassle, to kill the mice, freeze them, defrost tham, and offer them to the snake. (Freeze them for 30 days if possible to kill the couple of parasites that could be transmitted to your snake that are actually killed by freezing.) Cervical separation in my preferred way to kill them. If you can't do that, but the mice in a small bowl and put a smaller bowl in that bowl. Mix vinegar and baking soda (which will bubble and fuse a LOT - so make sure the bowl in big enough) to produce CO2. Leave the mopuse in there for plenty enough tim to make sure it is dead. Don't watch it because the dying mouse jumps around, but this occurs after it can't feel any pain, anyway, so it isn't cruel (so I'm told), but it looks like it is.

Anyway, back to your question. You snake was just scared of it. It was something new that could hurt it and it couldn't escape. heck, it might have never seen a live mouse before and certainly nothing large than a peach fuzzy, right? I'd be scared, too.

Some snakes know what to do, an some just get scared and freaked. remember that wild snakes have a FEAR of adul mice when small since they know they can be killed instead of getting a meal from the mouse.

KJ

I had a yearling corn go 12 months without a meal once. Three months of that was in brumation. Snakes can go incredably long times without eating. Jeff Robbe

I guess I know all that...it's just that the "mommy-ness" in me can't stand to see a beloved critter miss a meal. (Maybe I have Italian blood in my ancestry somewhere? *LOL*)

Thanks so much for the replies, both here and in e-mail. I'll take the mice back to the store if they'll have them. If not, I'll either have two new little pets, or will try KJ's formula for a CO2 chamber and freeze them. In the mean time, I'll look again at the online vendors and try to find a reasonable number of hoppers to order. After studying the mice on RodenPro, I'm sure the ones I have are weanlings.

I checked Caesar today. I wanted to be sure the mouse hadn't actually wounded him. His eyes are fully clouded and he didn't want to be held, but his aggressiveness was completely gone, which was good to see. I kept the handling to a bare minimum and now that I'm sure he's fine, he'll be left totally alone for the rest of the week until after he sheds. Hopefully soon after that, I'll have an order of frozen meeces arrive.

KJ, I learned my lesson. I'll never try to feed live again!

Thanks again!
Judy
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1.0 red cape gopher (Caesar)