Reptile & Amphibian Forums

How did it all start? How did the first morph come about? I'm guessing it had to occur naturally and from there other morphs were created. What are the original mutations that everything else is based on?

I am by no means an expert on this but from what I have read most morphs have been wild caught in Africa. i have just recently read a few stories about the Albino, Pied, and platnium and how they were imported and then were produced in captivity. So I think most morphs are from Africa but ones such as the Snowball and other double recessive morphs have only been produced in captivity through selective breading. but who knows their might be a prue with BP slithering around Africa somewhere!

He imported the first Albino ball python way back when ball pythons were not cool............then VPI imported their Axanthic and the Clown........NERD also was bringing in Ghosts and other cool aberants..........this was all in the early ninties.......

Pete Kahl is responsible for the high dollars we see tagged onto "new mutations".............

These guys are "old school"..........back when all you got was a price sheet in the mail...........

>>He imported the first Albino ball python way back when ball pythons were not cool............

Actually, Bob Clark did not import the first albino Ball Python (the albino he started the line with). He purchased if from an importer in Florida. Same for the genetic stripe. That too came from the same source. Sorry to be a stickler for details...

Matt
p.s. - I'm glad Bob did prove the albino Ball gene as I have an albino male from that line and he is very nice looking!
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"Change what you cannot accept... do not accept what you can't change!"

Tod Ashley C.$.C.

Here are some more details if you would like to know more.......
Clarks's Albino story

..........

Stripe Link
Clark's Stripe

Hey, Ralph,

Here is a pic of both animals (the second? albino) in Florida before Bob got them.

Matt
p.s. - Unless I'm wrong (sometimes happens) this was the albino Male Bob started the line with. He bought it at the same time as the stripe. But, as the text reads on your site for the 'first' albino Bob had, that is the snake which created the first hets. So, whatever happened with this second albino?

>>Here are some more details if you would like to know more.......
>>Clarks's Albino story

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"Change what you cannot accept... do not accept what you can't change!"

Tod Ashley C.$.C.

That Stripe male originated from EB Noah......who knows how it made it to the states?...........I guess I'm giving credit to the people who started the mutation.............and not the people they actually got them from............the importers/ jobbers.............anyway............some breeders buy straight out of Africa............some go through a second hand............it makes no difference to me............it's not that important......

I spent $70,000.00 on a white snake this year.............I bought it out of Africa...........it went to a dude in Florida first.................so who brought it in??............no it did not come straight to my Airport from Africa............it stopped in Florida first..............but I brought it in...........it was mine......

>>That Stripe male originated from EB Noah......

Yep, it did.

>>who knows how it made it to the states?

Airplane, Ralph... Airplane!!!

>>...........I guess I'm giving credit to the people who started the mutation.............and not the people they actually got them from............the importers jobbers.............anyway............some breeders buy straight out of Africa............some go through a second hand............it makes no difference to me............it's not that important......

In my opinion, I find it rather important to give credit, where credit is due (in some cases). Without the people to bring these snakes in, you would not have received your white one that you paid 70K for.

It's all just perspective.

Matt
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"Change what you cannot accept... do not accept what you can't change!"

Tod Ashley C.$.C.

According to your perspective, every diamond sold by DeBeers should have some kind of "credit" associated with it...?

This diamond was originally dug out of the ground by Ed Grimsdale...it was carried to the airport by Doug Phillips...it was cut by Alex McTwiddle...it was sold by Fred Bennett

What about paychecks delivered to employees through the mail? Should the US Postal Service be given credit for the amount of the paycheck? What about the work that was performed in the process of earning the paycheck...should the US Postal Service get credit for that work?

Every vehicle on the road today has some kind of a tie-back to whoever invented the first automobile. Henry Ford? Angus McDuff? Who knows. Vehicles are credited to the company that market them...not the designer...not the guy who dug the iron ore that was used to produce the brake pedal.

At the end of the day, the "credit" for commercially marketed products (whatever they may be) generally goes to the person/company/whatever that brings the product to market. A notable exception to this is - rather obviously - movies...which seem to take great delight in listing everyone invloved in the process...right down to the guy who made the sandwiches that the cast ate.

We could argue "who really deserves the credit for a morph" until the cows come home. Who does? The guy who found the snake in Africa? The guy who purchased the snake from the guy who found it? The exporter? The guy who flew the plane that brought the snake here? The importer? The guy who purchased the snake from the importer? The guys who delivered the snake from the importer to the guy who purchased it? The guy who marketed the morph? What about the guy who made the sandwiches that fed the guy who grew the rats that fed the snake while it was in Africa?

My vote: Let's give all the credit for every morph to a guy named Louie who digs them out of the ground in Africa. Oh, wait a minute...without Ralph's money paying the importer who pays the exporter who pays the agent who pays the guy who dug it out of the ground, the morph would never appear over here for us to see. But there again, what about the guy who makes the sandwiches that feed Louie...?

Please Note:
1) All names in this post were made up on the spur of the moment. No association should be made with anyone either living, dead or something in-between.
2) Wherever I have said "guy", the term "lady" could be used instead. This is an equal opportunity post, and I do not mean to infer that ladies could not dig ball pythons out of holes in Africa...or export snakes...or fly planes...or import snakes...or make sandwiches...

Obviously Matt enjoys knowing all the facts…….......maybe he would like to put some trappers on the payroll every season……..I never dis-credited the guys over in Africa who get me all this great stuff that I pay heavily for……….it’s just part of the biz, that’s what they do…………they don’t want the credit…….they want the bucks……….as for the importers in Florida and California who sometimes get some cool stuff that filters out to the breeders……….they too could care less about credit..……….all I want is the snake safe and in my facility as quickly as possible………..and all they want is the money!!.............I do all of this so I too can make the money……….and I want all the credit for my project……...call me selfish………but that’s the way I see it…….I’m the one producing!!..................

Pete picked up the “founding” Piebald stock that he took over the world with from breeders we all know…………they made a huge mistake buy passing them on to him……….he scored HUGE………….guess who we all associate with the Pied……….that would be Pete………….guess who we associate with the Albino…………that would be Bob Clark…………not the trapper or the importer or anyone else…………..the dude who cracked the egg gets the props!!..........

The fact that Matt is going to “stickle” for these meaningless little details is retarded………Bob IS Albino and Striped balls………..bottom line………..show the man some respect BONER!.........I don’t care if he picked the snakes up from me ten years ago……………BOB did it!!.............Bob brought it too market…………it’s all BOB!!.............it was his money!..........Noah will sleep at night just fine Matt……..LMAO!!.............and so will your “secret supplier” to the big breeder who has not been given his “ props”………..

The breeder is the one who has everything to loose at the end of the day……….

>>Obviously Matt enjoys knowing all the facts……

Hey, I'm a scientist for a living, so yeah, facts are my life!

>>The fact that Matt is going to “stickle” for these meaningless little details is retarded………

Oh brother... I'm doomed...

>Bob IS Albino and Striped balls………..bottom line………..show the man some respect BONER!.........I don’t care if he picked the snakes up from me ten years ago……………BOB did it!!.............Bob brought it too market…………it’s all BOB!!.............it was his money!..........

No kidding. Hey, my albino and hets are from the Clark line and I make that clear to people so they know the lineage. But why do I have to show respect to someone I don't know? I simply stated a fact and now it's about respect? I showed NO disrespect! The bottom line was he DID NOT import it. I have my perspective and you have yours. I already did acknowledge the 'fact' that he was the first to reproduce the albino gene and I was GLAD he did since the gene my animals carry and express ARE that founding line.

>...........and so will your “secret supplier” to the big breeder who has not been given his “ props”………..

Oh brother again... Sorry I have an opinion... my apologies.

>>The breeder is the one who has everything to loose at the end of the day……….

No kidding. I've been doing this for ten years now on a considerable scale (no pun) and I know the win and lose battles of reproducing reptiles. Man, take a pill or ten and relax. I have a fact and an opinion in relation to it and obviously should not have stated it here. My bad... I'll get back to being a nobody asap... Sorry to sink the hook so deep.

Call it a day on this one?!

Matt
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"Change what you cannot accept... do not accept what you can't change!"

Tod Ashley C.$.C.

And give a scientist Goob like you the last word...........NEVER!!

I see now that your are one of the "brains" that hangs on every word written...........well you got the wrong guy pal............go visit RDR...........you'll have a caniption.......LMAO!!

There are no opinions in Science.............just the facts!!......

respect.........credit......all the same thing..........you want me to give credit to people I don't know.........when you don't do it yourself?

Don't tell me to take pills..........and you never hooked me.............I hooked you!!

You call it a day.............I live for this stuff!!

Rock On Matt!!!...............you da man!!!

What kinda science?

Oh yeah...........you'll be getting an email from a dude who will tell you that I treated him badly a few times also in the past............if you do.............I'll pay you for a copy of it......

>>And give a scientist Goob like you the last word...........NEVER!!

Hahaha... I am the last word.

>>I see now that your are one of the "brains" that hangs on every word written...........well you got the wrong guy pal............go visit RDR...........you'll have a caniption.......LMAO!!

Naw... I don't hang on words... I only hang on to a good pint of Guinness.

>>respect.........credit......all the same thing..........you want me to give credit to people I don't know.........when you don't do it yourself?

I showed NO disrespect. Maybe in your opinion I did, but not mine. I did credit him with the gene and say I was glad he did 'prove' it. I'd call that respect. How does breeding snakes warrent respect anyway? Just curious...

>>Don't tell me to take pills..........and you never hooked me.............I hooked you!!

Oh man... You replied to me! I was holding the rod.

>>Rock On Matt!!!...............you da man!!!

Hey, I know it!

>>What kinda science?

Weird Science of course! Dude, you are of the 80's... actually, Chemist... the SICKEST of them all!

>>Oh yeah...........you'll be getting an email from a dude who will tell you that I treated him badly a few times also in the past............if you do.............I'll pay you for a copy of it......

Sure thing. I can always use the cash for one project or another. Maybe get me some of them new-fangled snakes with white patches all over their body.

Matt
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"Change what you cannot accept... do not accept what you can't change!"

Tod Ashley C.$.C.

You've been drinking Guinness and holding your rod...

No wonder your logic is so...illogical...

Hahaha... SOMEONE with a little wit! Hooray...

Hey, so I get stuck on minor details... in my line of work minor details typically result in MAJOR problems. That's all...

>>You've been drinking Guinness and holding your rod...
>>
>>No wonder your logic is so...illogical...
>>
>>
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"Change what you cannot accept... do not accept what you can't change!"

Tod Ashley C.$.C.

.... instead of attempting to criticize the words of an expert and professional in this area of interest. I don't know your status in the Ball Python world, but judging from your posts, your words and actions tell me that you probably aren't an expert OR professional in this area.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming to be an expert or professional when it comes to Ball Pythons. As a result, I would never step up to the plate in an attempt to win an argument over petty details with the likes of a Ralph Davis, Dave Barker, Pete Kahl....

Believe me, I don’t think anyone is trying to pull the wool over your eyes or attempt to deceive you and what you believe to be the truth about importing Ball Pythons. I guess we need to start a 6 week research project before any of us attempt to make a post here on KS, in fear that you may decide to bring your work home with you and carry it out into your leisure time. Give everyone a break and lighten up a little...

Dan Wagoner

leave the Guinness out of this!

np

Well, I find it hard to believe that it was an equal opportunity post.

Everyone knows that the best sandwiches are made by women.

And furthermore, Alex McTwiddle is one drunken SOB that owes me 10% of ever diamond he EVER cuts.
I funded his little "New World Order" and it has failed just like the countless other businesses he dragged me into.

If you see him, tell him I asked for him.

(I love it)