Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have had this setup for about 2 years although it has changed a little from time to time.
In it right now I have:
1 Tokay Gecko
1 large Green Treefrog not sure what species from petshop
2 Cuban Treefrogs WC in Florida
2 Gray Treefrogs WC in Massachusetts
1 Common Toad WC in Massachusetts
All are living happily together.
The 2 Gray Treefrogs are very tame you would'nt know they were wild caught.
You can see the Toad,1 Gray Treefrog,1 small Cuban Treefrog,and the large Gree Treefrog in the photo.The Tokay is behind the piece of slate in the back.

Here is the Tokay out and about rare to see him out!

Close up of 1 of the Gray Treefrogs

I'm not even going to touch this one tonite....
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0.0.5 Blue Dendrobates Auratus
3.2.1 African Dwarf Frogs (Hymenochirus boettgeri)
2.2.0 Asian Floating Frogs (Occidozyga Lima)
1.1.0 White's Tree Frog (Litoria caerulea)

Wow. First let me say that you are extremely lucky that the smaller tree frog has not been eaten by the Tokay. That tank looks like a 37 gal. That would be a good size to keep 2 Cubans in. Or a Tokay gecko. Or a few Grays. BUT NOT ALL OF THEM TOGETHER! All of the species you have housed have different housing requirements. For example your Tokay needs a basking spot with 90 degree temperatures, and 70-90% humidity. The Cuban tree frogs need cooler temperatures than the Tokay (70-80 degrees). This is not even mentioning the other species you are keeping in there. If you are telling the truth, and this setup has been running for over 2 years then you are very lucky. I suggest that you tear down this setup and build several new enclosures to give each species the proper environment they deserve. If you can not properly care for your animals then you do not deserve to have them.
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0.0.5 Blue Dendrobates Auratus
3.2.1 African Dwarf Frogs (Hymenochirus boettgeri)
2.2.0 Asian Floating Frogs (Occidozyga Lima)
1.1.0 White's Tree Frog (Litoria caerulea)

;
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P. sauvagei
derekb15.tripod.com/tropicaltreasures
4.2 P. sauvagei
3.2.7 P. hypochondrialis
2.0 P. vaillanti
0.0.3 P. aurotaenia
2.2 B. orientalis
0.0.10 S. pustulosa
0.0.3 B. americanus
1.0 T. horsefieldi

.
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Heather
Dozer & ZeroCool

Okay...I'll take this species by species.

Tokay
Tokay geckos are solitary creatures. They generally have pretty...unpleasant...dispositions and can and will bite under the slightest provocation. As far as enclosure requirements they prefer a temp gradient of 76-90, 90 being under the basking spot. A temp of at least 85 is needed for most to even digest food properly. Humidity should be maintained anywhere from 70% to 90% and should never drop below 50.

Green Tree Frog
I can only assume that the unknown green tree frog is in fact Hyla Cinerea. They are very skittish frogs. Ambient temps for them should only be around 75 to 78; 78 to 80 in the basking spot. Night time temps should never fall below 70. Humidity should be maintained at 30 to 50 %

Cuban Tree Frog
First and foremost, these frogs have toxic secretions. Temps should be 80ish in the day, 70ish at night. High humidity at 70% to 90%. Cuban tree frogs are notorious cannibals, and will eat or attempt to eat their smaller tank mates. Females can reach 5 inches or more, so your grays and greens will be fair game.

Gray Tree Frogs
Kept primarily as Greens, but they do need a moist substrate. They can tolerate temp. fluctuations, but they shouldn’t have to. They should be kept at around 75 to 80 degrees.

Common Toad
Toads need moist substrate to burrow in, period. Hiding is what makes them feel safe. They will also eat tank mates whenever presented with one that will fit in its mouth.

Problems with Your Enclosure (other than the obvious species mixing)
The chip substrate that you are using is an impaction waiting to happen.
Your water dish is not healthy, PERIOD. Cubans have secretions that are toxic to most other animals. When it soaks, it contaminates the water. Then when your others go to use it, they are absorbing toxins introduced by the Cuban.
Your tank looks mighty cold. I do not see any overhead lamps at all in the photo, and with arboreal species, an undertank heater is useless. Where is the temperature guage?
It also looks mighty dry. The dishes are useless to the Gecko, and the substrate you are using isn't exactly ideal for holding moisture to maintain the humidity. Where is the humidity guage?
Most of the captives you have are wild caught. This means you have no idea what pathogens and parasites they have already or will expose the rest of the tank mates to. Once one gets ill, or succumbs to the stress of living in a tank like that, that particular animal’s immune system will start to falter. Those parasites which were once kept in check by the healthy immune system will boom out of control and eventually take the life of that animal and possibly more through enclosure contamination.

Conclusion
If in fact your tank has been operational for 2 years, than now is the time to do right by your animals. They are not "happy". They are incapable of feeling happy. They feel either safe or unsafe. Unfortunately for you and ultimately them, those animals are not safe in the least bit. I will assume that you didn't do a whole lot of research before you got them, and you probably have seen mixed tanks in various pet stores and zoos. Well pet store mixed tanks fail, they just have the money to replace the animal or they either tell you or you assume it was sold. Zoo enclosures also not easy to keep, that I know from experience as I work at one. Lucky for the zoo, they can afford huge tanks to have arboreal and terrestrial species separated. And once again, casualties can be replaced before anyone even notices.
All of your animals need enclosures specific to species ASAP. They are alive, but they cannot thrive in an environment like that. It is not fair to them, and if for some reason you do not have the funds or space to facilitate that move than you really should consider finding replacement homes for some of them. That doesn’t make you a bad person, just one in a bit over your head. Pick your favorite, redesign the tank, and relocate the rest. I'm not trying to condemn you, it's a common mistake and unfortunately most people just don't know any better. Now you know. No one here is trying to blow smoke up your butt. We just want what is best for the animals. You can email me personally if you'd like help, or you can let them survive like that and wonder why they start to drop off like flies one day. I t is your choice. We just hope that you make the right one.
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*~~Whitney~~*

There are two types of people in this world, good and bad. The good sleep better, but the bad seem to enjoy the waking hours much more.

>>Okay...I'll take this species by species.
>>
>>Tokay
>>Tokay geckos are solitary creatures. They generally have pretty...unpleasant...dispositions and can and will bite under the slightest provocation. As far as enclosure requirements they prefer a temp gradient of 76-90, 90 being under the basking spot. A temp of at least 85 is needed for most to even digest food properly. Humidity should be maintained anywhere from 70% to 90% and should never drop below 50.
>>
>>Green Tree Frog
>>I can only assume that the unknown green tree frog is in fact Hyla Cinerea. They are very skittish frogs. Ambient temps for them should only be around 75 to 78; 78 to 80 in the basking spot. Night time temps should never fall below 70. Humidity should be maintained at 30 to 50 %
>>
>>Cuban Tree Frog
>>First and foremost, these frogs have toxic secretions. Temps should be 80ish in the day, 70ish at night. High humidity at 70% to 90%. Cuban tree frogs are notorious cannibals, and will eat or attempt to eat their smaller tank mates. Females can reach 5 inches or more, so your grays and greens will be fair game.
>>
>>Gray Tree Frogs
>>Kept primarily as Greens, but they do need a moist substrate. They can tolerate temp. fluctuations, but they shouldn’t have to. They should be kept at around 75 to 80 degrees.
>>
>>Common Toad
>>Toads need moist substrate to burrow in, period. Hiding is what makes them feel safe. They will also eat tank mates whenever presented with one that will fit in its mouth.
>>
>>Problems with Your Enclosure (other than the obvious species mixing)
>>The chip substrate that you are using is an impaction waiting to happen.
>>Your water dish is not healthy, PERIOD. Cubans have secretions that are toxic to most other animals. When it soaks, it contaminates the water. Then when your others go to use it, they are absorbing toxins introduced by the Cuban.
>>Your tank looks mighty cold. I do not see any overhead lamps at all in the photo, and with arboreal species, an undertank heater is useless. Where is the temperature guage?
>>It also looks mighty dry. The dishes are useless to the Gecko, and the substrate you are using isn't exactly ideal for holding moisture to maintain the humidity. Where is the humidity guage?
>>Most of the captives you have are wild caught. This means you have no idea what pathogens and parasites they have already or will expose the rest of the tank mates to. Once one gets ill, or succumbs to the stress of living in a tank like that, that particular animal’s immune system will start to falter. Those parasites which were once kept in check by the healthy immune system will boom out of control and eventually take the life of that animal and possibly more through enclosure contamination.
>>
>>Conclusion
>>If in fact your tank has been operational for 2 years, than now is the time to do right by your animals. They are not "happy". They are incapable of feeling happy. They feel either safe or unsafe. Unfortunately for you and ultimately them, those animals are not safe in the least bit. I will assume that you didn't do a whole lot of research before you got them, and you probably have seen mixed tanks in various pet stores and zoos. Well pet store mixed tanks fail, they just have the money to replace the animal or they either tell you or you assume it was sold. Zoo enclosures also not easy to keep, that I know from experience as I work at one. Lucky for the zoo, they can afford huge tanks to have arboreal and terrestrial species separated. And once again, casualties can be replaced before anyone even notices.
>>All of your animals need enclosures specific to species ASAP. They are alive, but they cannot thrive in an environment like that. It is not fair to them, and if for some reason you do not have the funds or space to facilitate that move than you really should consider finding replacement homes for some of them. That doesn’t make you a bad person, just one in a bit over your head. Pick your favorite, redesign the tank, and relocate the rest. I'm not trying to condemn you, it's a common mistake and unfortunately most people just don't know any better. Now you know. No one here is trying to blow smoke up your butt. We just want what is best for the animals. You can email me personally if you'd like help, or you can let them survive like that and wonder why they start to drop off like flies one day. I t is your choice. We just hope that you make the right one.
>>-----
>>*~~Whitney~~*
>>
>>There are two types of people in this world, good and bad. The good sleep better, but the bad seem to enjoy the waking hours much more.
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Devin
devin@amphibiancare.com
www.amphibiancare.com
3.2 Dendrobates tinctorius 'Dwarf French Guiana'
1.1 Dendrobates tinctorius 'Powder Blue'
5.1 Mantella aurantiaca
2.1 Mantella crocea
1.0 Ceratophrys cranwelli
1.0 Bufo americanus
0.0.1 Salamandra salamandra
1.0 Ambystoma tigrinum
0.1 Chamaeleo calyptratus
0.1 Phelsuma dubia
1.1 Uroplatus ebenaui
0.0.1 Chrysemys scripta
0.0.1 Chrysemys picta belli
1.0 Terrapene carolina triunguis

NP
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Got hips like Cinderella / Must be having a good shame / Talking sweet about nothing / Cookie I think you're Tame

My MA grays would stress to death if left in 80's temps, otherwise, great post

This is something the pet store chain we all like to pick on might do. Other than throwing in a snake or two or some dart frogs, I can't think of anything much worse.

Truly, read the posts carefully and take their advice as soon as possible.
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Patty
Lost River, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
3 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
4 D. leukomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos

I noticed you said that there have been changes in the tank the past two years. What kind of changes? How long have these particular tank mates lived together? Above all, why would you even do that?
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Got hips like Cinderella / Must be having a good shame / Talking sweet about nothing / Cookie I think you're Tame

They may be alive but i'm sure they are the saddest "barely living" creatures ever. Don't you think there is a reason that the totay isn't out much? Not hating on you but seriously, house your "friends" right so they can be happy. Would you like it if you were kept in a tank with a tiger, a orangutan, a zebra, and an hyena? if you stayed alive for 2 years, that means you were probably hiding under a box scared Sh*tless.

-=howie=-

My friend has a Tokay gecko and I have seen it bite him. I can only imagine what that mouth could do to a tree frog. Danger is eminent if this continues.
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*~Ginevive~*

We have a Tokay at the shop I work at and that little bugger is MEAN!!! LOL She will literally come at you when you reach in to clean her water dish! It' shocked the heck out of me because I had never seen a gecko like that before! BEAUTIFUL creature, but I DEFINITELY would NOT mix it with anything! (I wouldn't mix any species anyway)
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Heather
Dozer & ZeroCool

Well thanks for the replies. I honestly never thought that my tank setup was so horrible. I have been keeping herps since I was a kid and have had pretty good luck keeping different species together. I do agree with everyone although I have never seen any negative impact with this tank setup. I do care for my herps and I will attempt to fix my mistakes. Your posts have had an impact. Thank you.
I have also kept fish both tropical and marine tanks since I was a child and have always found it strange how much trouble people go through to keep their fish tanks at the proper Ph with the proper nitrite levels etc. My fish would always live long heathly lives with very little cleaning and fussing over their tank conditions. My water was always crystal clear whereas the people that would constantly fuss with their tank the water was often times poison for the fish. I just rolled my fish keeping abilities to my herp keeping and have had very good luck with it. But again what you people have all agreed on makes sense. Thank you all again.

Thank you for being such an open minded person and not taking what everyone was saying as an attack against you. As stated, we simply wish to help provide long happy lives for our critters.. and I think that it's so wonderful and refreshing to read your responce!!

If you have ANY questions at all, feel free to ask away! If one of us doesn't have the answer, someone else will.

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Heather
Dozer & ZeroCool

This is good news. Your animals are still alive and it's not too late to separate them. There might be a few instances where you can safely house two species together (from the same place, with the same habits, same conditions needed, same sizes, etc.), but we freak out when we see something like this because it's too many mistakes waiting to happen. I'm really glad that you are willing to make changes in the benefit of your animals, though, and I hope you weren't offended by anything said (because the truth is most people will not change).
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Got hips like Cinderella / Must be having a good shame / Talking sweet about nothing / Cookie I think you're Tame

You know what? You are the very first person on Kingsnake that I ever reached out to that didnt come back and try to bite my head off. The absolute first. I am thrilled to death that you care enough about them to change some things, and trust me, it's a very rewarding experience to set up and maintain seperate enclosures for multiple animals. I am just as pleased as punch. I knew you cared about them!!!
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*~~Whitney~~*

There are two types of people in this world, good and bad. The good sleep better, but the bad seem to enjoy the waking hours much more.

It's the very few and far between ones like this that make taking that extra time and care - needless to say, risk of starting a war - that make it all worth it. A wonderful breath of fresh air that has inspired me to keep on caring and trying to help and I hope will do the same for many others! You're just the best Whit!
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Happy Frogging!!!

~Becki~

I agree. You offered detailed steps to take and took the time to explain the reasons. I am just beginning to explore and research this subject, making note of whom I would seek for guidance in this journey and YOU are high on my list.
Thanks for caring that much!

Come on, guys. I wasnt the only one who said something. Thanks for the props, but we all just do what we can to help others. If I didnt post when I did someone else would have, right? I mean I just came back to KS three or four days ago. I don't deserve all of this, Beazlbob(sp)does for deciding to update his tank. If anyone deserves praise, its him. Plus, all that time spent "talking to the frog" has helped me to be a little more tactful in my posts, we don't need a repeat of old DeWhit!!*grins devilishy*
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*~~Whitney~~*

There are two types of people in this world, good and bad. The good sleep better, but the bad seem to enjoy the waking hours much more.

n/p